What can clinicians do when the job is wearing them down?
In December 2021, I spoke with Dr. Tom Davis, a physician and business consultant who had just launched NewScript, an online community for healthcare professionals who are thinking about a career change or looking for ways to thrive where they are. He built it with a business partner who is also a physician.
This is an archive episode, recorded when the show covered addiction, recovery, and the wider world of health care broadly. It is a conversation about burnout, mentorship, and the pressure that keeps clinicians in jobs that are hurting them. It came at a good time for me, since I had been thinking a lot about the same questions.
What is NewScript, and who is it for?
At 00:25, Dr. Davis described a private community for anyone with a license, from doctors and nurses to therapists, pharmacists, and clinical psychologists. In his view, a great deal of innovation is being held back because clinicians are kept on a treadmill of long days and late-night charting.
He said the hardest part of any change is the transition itself, not finding a destination. Plenty of places show people where they might go. Very few teach them how to get there, and almost none offer the mutual support that makes the move feel less lonely.
He also argued that the isolation is deliberate. As medicine has become more corporate, he said, clinicians have been kept isolated and very busy so they do not think about their situation or look for better offers. Yet, in his words, medicine is very collaborative, because no one of us has all the answers.
Why is it so hard to leave an employed job?
At 08:29, I compared leaving employment to walking out of prison after a long sentence. You feel free for a few minutes. Then you look back at the cell where the meals came on time, and it is tempting to walk right back in and close the door behind you.
What people need is support with the small decisions. Should I rent an expensive office I cannot afford? How do I reach patients? Do I bill insurance or not? In fact, someone only a month ahead can help the person just starting, and someone a few years in can say what worked and what did not.
Are trainees told that they have other options?
From 09:50, Dr. Davis told the story behind the project. Years earlier, he had put together a mentorship package on moving from training into practice and offered it to medical schools and residencies. It was well received when he could present it, but the doors kept closing.
At a conference, he asked an assistant medical director from one of those programs what had gone wrong. According to her, the people paying for the program wanted residents trained to work for them, not given enough information to consider other paths. He called that monstrous. Unfortunately, he said, later calls to his contacts suggested it was a common view.
What message do young doctors hear about going out on their own?
At 14:15, I said that the lectures at medical conferences often carry a hidden message built on fear. Stay employed, the message goes, because a large system has the lawyers and the records and has figured everything out, and you never will on your own.
Fortunately, my own residency was at a small, privately owned hospital. A doctor came in one morning and told us that anyone can start a practice with a blood pressure cuff, a stethoscope, and a scale. I still think that is a good way to look at it. Start with the minimum and build from there.
Dr. Davis called that a powerful message. At 16:11, he said that anyone who has made it far enough in training to care for patients already has the skills and determination to do it. In his view, clinicians have far more leverage than they think, because the system cannot run without them.
What about student loans?
At 18:02, I raised the worry many clinicians share. Their families depend on the salary, and the loan payments make leaving feel impossible. Still, I believe that whatever obstacle seems to make it impossible, someone out there has found a way around it.
From 19:02, Dr. Davis offered a practical path. Keep your lifestyle modest for the first few years after training, and negotiate for loan repayment rather than a higher salary, since loan repayment is one of the few things employers will bargain over. He suggested treating those years the way someone would treat a military service commitment that paid for school.
Once the loans are paid down, he said, a clinician is free to walk away. His concern was that, even with everything online, young clinicians know less about these options than he did when he finished school.
Is direct primary care the answer?
At 21:26, I shared a concern about direct primary care. Some doctors seem to compete on being the cheapest in town, sign up as many members as they can, and promise to answer their cell phone at any hour. To me, it can look like a new version of the same trap.
Dr. Davis said he likes the model because the price reflects the value. However, at 22:20, he said that many doctors set their price too low out of fear that nobody will sign up, because no one taught them the economics. He described his own doctor, who caps the number of patients she takes, charges enough to make the practice sustainable, and earns extra income in other ways.
How do you get an online community talking?
At 24:35, I admitted that I had recently started a small online group of my own and found it hard to spark conversation. So I asked him the secret.
From 25:54, he said one consultant compared the task to starting a fire on top of Mount Everest by rubbing two sticks together. Some platforms fill their feeds with fake activity, he said, the way a bartender drops a dollar in the tip jar. Their plan was to stay authentic instead, offer a great deal of value, and let tired, burned-out clinicians lurk safely until something moves them to comment.
He also explained why they chose not to build on Facebook. In his view, a private space was essential. Of course, he added that they were self-funding the project and were in it for the long haul.
Who is Tom Davis, MD?
Tom Davis, MD, is a physician and business consultant who co-founded NewScript, an online community for healthcare professionals considering a career change or looking to thrive in their current role. At 30:07, he said the app is available on the major app stores. He described NewScript as his third career.
What can listeners take away from this conversation?
In Dr. Davis’s view, burnout grows out of isolation, constant busyness, and a training culture that rarely shows people their options. A clinician who feels trapped usually has more choices than they have been told, and the people who have already made the move are often the best guides.
In the words Dr. Davis chose to close with, the treadmill is not your fate. It is a choice.
How do I approach this today?
Today my practice focuses on helping people come off benzodiazepines and other medications gradually, and on medication for alcohol and opioid dependence. Physical dependence is not addiction, and the safest way off is usually slow.
This page is educational. It is not medical advice, and listening to the episode or reading this page does not create a doctor-patient relationship. Decisions about starting, continuing, or tapering any medication should be made with your own physician.
Full transcript
A note from Dr. Leeds: my guests speak from their own experience and expertise, and the terminology they use is their own. Whatever the topic, this show holds to one distinction: physical dependence on a prescribed medication is not addiction. This transcript is educational content, not medical advice, and nothing here creates a doctor-patient relationship.
Read the full transcript (31 minutes)
Dr. Mark Leeds [00:00] Dr. Tom Davis, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Yeah, I’m really excited about this also because I was rereading your email and when I read over what you’re planning to do, it’s coming at a perfect time. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about also and just the idea of what you’re doing is great. Would you mind explaining for the audience just a little bit what you’re working on?
Tom Davis, MD [00:25] So my business partner, John Jerica, who is also a physician, and I have created a online community specifically devoted to helping folks who are thinking of a career transition, either to a clinical alternative or to a non-clinical career, or even who are looking for techniques to thrive in place where their employer’s techniques are just not helping. And it’s targeted towards healthcare professionals of any level. We obviously have a lot of doctors on there, but we’re also creating content for nurses and therapists and pharmacists, clinical psychologists. Really, anyone with a license will find value there is so much innovation that is being suppressed because all the clinicians are chained to the treadmill with busyness and gaslighting. And they’ve been convinced that there’s no other way to do it except to come to work, work for 10 hours and then do your charts for two hours, four hours at night. Or the nurses that have to do forced overtime or the therapists that are forced to do for, you know, patients an hour. I mean, there are so many other ways to do it. The corporate way earns money for the folks calling the shots. But in the United States, at least, we’re still free enough so that there are other options. And, you know, you wouldn’t tell it, you couldn’t tell it from John and I, but, you know, we are looking to push for institutional change by starving the system of the professionals they need to make the system work. The systems have bullied, I personally have been bullied by the system, and I didn’t like being bullied and I didn’t like the things that were being done. And I know my personal mission now is to disrupt the system and make things better. And one of the tactics there is to deprive the system of the professionals they need to make it work so that they have to make positive change in response. Our mission is not just to connect the folks that join our community with the destinations that are out there, but also with familiarizing them and providing them with tools to help them make the journey of transition itself, which, as you well know, Mark, is actually the greatest barrier to making a positive change. And when we looked at the market out there, we saw lots and lots of places, very fragmented community, that kind of show people where they might go, but no place where they can go to learn how to get there. And a key component of that is community, is mutual support, is not feeling alone. As medicine has corporatized, especially in the last 10 years, the practitioners at all levels of licensure have been increasingly isolated. And as you well know, that’s a feature, not a bug, because the MBAs are all taught when you have a technical person in your organization that your organization must have to function in order to make sure that they don’t make unreasonable compensation demands or allow other people to compete for their labor. These folks must be isolated and they must be kept very, very busy so they don’t think about what their situation is. And that is the antithesis of what medicine is at all levels. Medicine is very, very collaborative because no one of us has all the answers. And that is leading to a lot of misery out there. I think it’s one of the prime drivers of the burnout crisis, and all this was way before COVID. So we wanted to create a community where we could promote folks to encourage each other, to feel less alone, to share their stories and flex their leadership muscles, to be the mentors that you and I had when we went through training. If you go into the training systems now and if you go into the onboarding systems of young clinicians and young professionals as they get their first job, we wouldn’t recognize it because there’s no mentors out there’s nobody that you can use as a role model that will help you with your career simply because it’s their professional responsibility. I’m sure that we’re going to get a lot of letters about this, but really, by and large, most of the medical directors for these health systems, they are really there to help the healthcare professional execute the organization’s mission, not their own personal mission of service. And as a result, a lot of folks, you know, they transfer their, their, the idea that their professor is looking out for them to these medical directors, the medical directors are there for the organization, they’re not there for the individual clinician. So there really is no model of mentorship. The folks coming out of training day and the folks in the early part of their career, they have no idea what it’s like to have older clinicians, older nurses, older therapists to look up to who they can have lunch with to talk over problems. They just don’t know. And frankly, the educational establishment is really not interested in recreating that at all. So John and I decided to take advantage of the low barriers to connection that the Internet provides and create our own space. And so that’s what we did. We’ve got a space that’s private. We don’t resell anybody’s information for any reason. It’s secure and it’s functional and it’s familiar because it’s kind of like a social media feed, but also has a lot of the functionalities that you would expect in terms of live streaming and private conference rooms so that people can connect and support each other. And our intention is to bring in a lot of folks, a lot of experts that we will curate ourselves. We know from our experience in the career transition community, who we know provide a high level of world-class service and expertise across a broad variety of career transition destinations, both non-clinical and clinical, and also in a thrive-in-place space. And allow them to connect with these folks and build a following in a place where the barrier to enter is low. And when we started thinking about this idea, we talked to some social media folks about it, and they universally told us not to waste our time. They pointed to other platforms. Most of them are clinician only because that’s where the money is, supposedly. And they say, you know, the health professionals today, they are burned out. They’re hyper competitive. They’ve allowed their worst instincts to take over. And what you’re going to get is a is a bitch session, a place where people will just complain and put each other down. And don’t even try to do it for nurses or therapists or psychologists because there’s no money there. So you won’t ever make any any money. And so we were we decided to prove them wrong. And as a corollary, we don’t allow any advertising except the very few things that we think are of value to the folks that are coming on. And the beast will be supported by those affiliate fees and by a modest subscription fee. And what we’re hoping to do is create a place to change the conversation. And Mark, based on the response we had just in the first few days, I think we’re on to something.
Dr. Mark Leeds [08:29] Yeah, there’s definitely a need for it, for what you’re doing. I mean, you know, leaving employment is kind of like walking out of prison, you know, after like a 20-year sentence is over. And, you know, you walk out into the world and you feel great being free. And then after a few minutes, you look back, you’re like, wait, there’s my cell where I was getting three meals a day. And I was comfortable and I knew where I was sleeping. And, you know, now I have this whole world in front of me and there’s no one here to guide me and show me what to do. And so it’s really easy to turn back and walk right back in and close the prison door behind you and, you know, say, give me a job. But yeah, I mean, people really need that support and direction. And just for the little things, you know, just to say, OK, I want to rent an office now. Do I do I go rent this two thousand dollar a month space, you know, because I can’t really afford it or what other options are there? And, you know, how do I market to patients? You know, how do I do I want to bill insurance? Do I not want to bill? I mean, there’s so many questions in ways that people who are different levels, you know, people who are further along the path can help the people just getting started out. You know, someone with a month of experience can help the person who’s just getting started and person with a few years of experience can say, you know, this is what I did and this is what worked for me and what didn’t work. Even little things like how do I do a prior authorization? Well, there’s a website for that. You don’t have to fill out those paper forms and it’s free. I mean, there’s just so many ways that people can help each other in this kind of setting.
Tom Davis, MD [09:50] Well, Mark, what you just said is very, very dangerous to the folks that are now calling the shots in the health care system. When I first started doing this, again, this is long pre-COVID, I had a nice package about how to make the transition from graduation to practice. In an employed setting, private practice doesn’t matter. It has a nice little package, talked about finances, talked about how to deal with your peers. It was basically kind of an out-of-the-box mentorship for what you will. And I marketed it to medical schools, and I marketed it to residencies. And I really had trouble getting traction. I mean, even the professional organizations I marketed to wouldn’t let me put it on for free. And I did it a couple of times, and it was very well received. But even those leads started petering out. And so after I had pitched it to a, how shall we say, branded residency program, whose name we would all recognize, and nothing happened, I ran into the assistant medical director who I had met at that organization and went to visit. And I will use the pronoun she at random because I wanted just to hide their identity. But we were at a conference, a completely unrelated conference. And during the networking portion, we were having a couple of drinks. And I asked her about what went wrong. I couldn’t even get anybody to return my emails for a postmortem to figure out why I didn’t get the pitch. And she told me something that just absolutely rocked my world. It’s one of those moments which would just totally come out of left field. She said, oh, you’ll never sell that. You’ll never sell that. I said, why? She says, well, we talked about you at a meeting. And our director said, the people who pay the bills want us to train our residents so that they will work for them. They don’t want our residents to have enough information to think about options. I was stunned. I thought it’s a training program. You’re supposed to do that. And she said, no, no, we give them just enough information to make them think that we’re doing it. But the people who run the program, who are paying for the program, they’re using them to train their next set of employees. Well, that’s monstrous, Mark. I mean, that’s just monstrous. So it took me a while to internalize that. And I started calling around to some of my contacts, the people I had marketed to. And, you know, they wouldn’t tell you something like this right out. But if you ask them about it and challenge them, then eventually what you get is, yeah, that’s a big part of the problem. And I found out from a large professional organization that indeed that was part of the problem. The people who are paying the bills don’t want the trainees, they don’t want the students to think that there’s alternatives to the treadmill. And that really dovetails with what I saw as a business consultant in my other life, that really these folks are being groomed. And I use that term, it’s a very loaded term, but that’s what is happening to the trainees and the young employed specialists, young employed healthcare professionals. They are being groomed for a life on the treadmill until they are spit out on the other side, used up and burned to a crisp. And that was when I started to realize that was when the germ of idea that maybe we can connect our own space and honestly Mark that is the reason why starting this week I’m going on TikTok to try to bring that message to the masses hopefully without lip-syncing or dancing because that’s where that’s where these health professionals in training are right now They need to know the situation that they are in and that they’re walking into and that there are alternatives to how they can pursue their passion of service outside of the traditional system.
Dr. Mark Leeds [14:15] Yeah, it’s definitely true that, you know, there’s a lot of pressure. And you’re right, they don’t come out and say it. But when I go to medical conventions every year to live in person medical conventions, the, you know, in the lectures is like a hidden message, you know, where they, you know, they use fear to drive people to, you know, to be to stay in employment, you’re protected by your employer, you want to work for a large employer, a hospital, a, you know, large healthcare system that will take care of you. They know what they’re doing. They have the lawyers. They have the EMR. They’ve figured everything out. And there’s no way you’ll figure it out on your own, according to them. […] but it’s not exactly true. There’s ways to do it definitely can be done. I was lucky enough to go to a small residency at a hospital that was privately owned. And so they didn’t really, in residency, they didn’t push that message. They actually brought in a doctor who lectured to us one morning about how anyone can start their own practice. All you need is a blood pressure cuff, a stethoscope, and a scale, and you’re pretty much all set. You don’t need much more than that. And that’s a good way to look at it of just starting simply. You know, what’s the minimum I need to get started and kind of build up from there?
Tom Davis, MD [16:11] What a tremendous and powerful message that you received at that point. And it’s absolutely true. If you’re passionate in patient care, no matter what your license is, there are ways to do it without finding yourself chained to a treadmill. Even if you have tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. It just takes a little intention. And if a person got far enough in their training that they got to a point where they are getting ready to care for patients, then they already have the prerequisite combination of skills and determination to do it. They just need folks to show them the way, show folks that they can look up to and say, well, you did that. And what we all did is we looked at a bunch of those different folks and kind of picked and chose what they did right that was applicable to us. And then we found our own way. And now, Mark, there is absolutely no infrastructure for that. And the reason is that the folks, again, paying the bills, they need the professionals with the licenses to make the thing turn. They don’t necessarily make money off of health care delivery, but they do need the professionals to at least keep their system going while they make their make their revenue, generate the revenue in other ways. And without us, the whole system falls apart. So we all have far more leverage than we think. And the way to really push that leverage is to execute our own mission on our own terms so we can feel good about what we’re doing. And then hopefully in a few years, mentor those who are behind us in turn.
Dr. Mark Leeds [18:02] Yeah, definitely. Yeah, for people that are worried about the loan thing, you know, because I know in some cases there might be people that, you know, maybe they have a spouse who has a good job and, you know, they can kind of fall back on that. But, you know, then there’s people out there that they depend on their salary, their family depends on it. And, you know, this whole thing sounds terrifying. You know, what am I going to do? I’m kind of chained to this job because I need to make loan payments. You know, you can’t really get out of that. And I don’t know much about this, but there was a doctor I’d followed on social media who was talking about how she started a practice that I think it was you do it by starting a nonprofit. There’s a way you can turn your practice into a nonprofit and that somehow gets you out of the loans or maybe doesn’t get out of them, you know, there’s a way to work it where, you know, you’re not chained to the salary and to the loans. I mean, so, and you probably know a lot more about that than I do, but there’s always a way. I mean, whatever obstacle that you think is in the way that makes it impossible, there’s somebody out there that has the answer to get around that obstacle.
Tom Davis, MD [19:02] Absolutely. There are a number of powerful paths. One of the options I tell folks when they bring up the loan burden is, well, you know, the system loves to give loan repayment as a partial benefit. So what you do is you continue your lifestyle for a couple of years outside a residency or when you finish your training. Don’t think that you can increase your lifestyle, just negotiate additional loan repayment for your employment. And for clinicians especially, the salary is what the salary is. Loan repayment is one of the very few things that organizations will negotiate with. And so you treat your first few years after your training as you would if you had let the Army pay for your training, and then you got to do four years in the Army. You just use those three years, four years or so to do nothing else but pay down those loans or pay them off and be very, very mercenary about it. Go to a place, go to a town that you’d like to kind of live in, but you don’t want to settle in and do a couple of years, sign the non-compete if they demand it. Ask for as much, get as much forbearance as you can or as much student loan repayment as you can, even at the expense of a regular salary. I mean, when you go to people and say, you know, they offer you 250, say I’ll take 200, but I want another 40 in loan repayment. Well, that’s something that can be negotiated. And then after the two or three years when you’ve really paid down your loans, then you can repackage them. So your monthly net is a lot lower and then you’re free to do what you do and then just walk away. If you know, if you’re a clinician and you start thinking about these things intentionally, there are paths. But now folks don’t even even with all the knowledge of the internet mark they don’t they know less about it than I did when I was out of school and that’s that’s got to change because the manipulation and the grooming that’s going on is it leads to an incredible waste of human potential and our society needs as much human potential as it can get
Dr. Mark Leeds [21:26] Yeah you know another thing with direct primary care movement, because I feel like some of the doctors, and it might be right for some people, but I feel like some of the doctors getting into it are like, you know, people who are chasing the bottom, you know, like trying to be the cheapest person in town, they’re kind of putting themselves in the same trap of like, you know, I need this many patients to pay the bills, I’m going to sign up everybody for 25 or $50 each as a membership. And, you know, you end up with, you know, those, those, that small group of patients that’s like kind of abusive of over utilizing. Cause you tell them, you know, I’m available 24 seven on my cell phone, call me anytime, you know, which is a good thing with the right group of patients. But, you know, I feel like some people might be said, I’m like, I, there’s this one woman on Facebook that constantly posts about how great her direct primary care practices. And to me, it just looks stressful, all the work she’s giving herself. So I don’t know how you feel about direct primary care, but.
Tom Davis, MD [22:20] Well, direct primary care is wonderful because you’re, your value is reflected in the price that you pay. If you, if you charge too much, then people won’t pay it. And it’s wonderful. The challenge is that setting up the practice, even with the DP care mentorship really doesn’t come with any economic education. And so many of us healthcare professionals are infested with imposter syndrome that will go in there and we’re so scared that nobody will sign up. We’ll set our price point too low and then we’ll get in the situation that you just described. And, you know, just like, you know, just like we would brag how many patients we saw when we were in training, you know, you’ll get into that situation. When you see those DPCs with the low price point and the people are so busy, you realize that they’re in the right direction, but they didn’t have anybody to teach them the right way. My doctor is a DPC. She charges a hundred bucks a month. She caps her, her practice at 500 patients. She uses it to, create allied revenue streams. For instance, her three offices are in three buildings, that are three antique buildings. That’s her thing. And then she runs the top floors out as Airbnbs. And so she makes a nice revenue stream from that. She also has add-ons like she does allergy testing for aura allergy treatment, which is great. She does, you know, some cosmetic stuff that if you’re a member, you get a discount. If you’re not, then, you know, you have to pay the full price. There are tons of ways to monetize your practice, but make it sustainable. And, you know, the argument is, well, if everybody did that, there wouldn’t be enough primary care doctors. It’s like, well, there’s two things in the universe, Mark. There’s things that are my problem and things that aren’t my problem. And that’s as an individual doctor, that’s not my problem. So people start demanding more primary care doctors and we’ll, you know, have the system to create them. But right now, it’s just feed them into a wood chipper and spitting them out 15 years later, disadvantaged, injured and beaten. And that’s just no, that’s no way to live.
Dr. Mark Leeds [24:35] And one thing that caught my attention with this was the funny thing is I just happened to recently try to start my own group online and nothing like what you’re doing but I got the idea that there was a lifetime deal on a social kind of a platform like what you’re talking about where that allows you to set up your own kind of a mastermind group or a closed group and so I signed up for it you know it wasn’t that expensive and now I have lifetime access and so I’m like okay I’m going to start a mastermind community of like my favorite smartest people and nicest people I know, bring them all together, like people I wish I could have normally introduced and bring them in. And we’re all going to chat and come up with great ideas together. And, you know, I got a good group of people to join and some others who are going to join soon. And the thing is, I, you know, I’ve never been great at organizing a party or anything, but I found it’s not that easy to get people to interact and contribute in a group, you know, and plus I’ve had some Facebook groups for a long time where I started them with an interesting topic as a title. And over time, some of them have had some interaction and people posting, but it’s not easy to get people to, as far as I’m concerned, at least for me, to spark the communication and the interaction. I mean, what’s the secret to that? Once you get this group of people to get them to start working together and talking together and contributing.
Tom Davis, MD [25:54] Well, that is the barrier. One of our social media consultants that we talked to said that doing this was going to be akin to trying to start a fire on the top of Mount Everest by rubbing two sticks together. It’s like, yeah, it’s true. It’s difficult to make a spark. And when the venture capitalists privately fund these things, basically what they do is they seed it with they see their network or their platform with a lot of fakery. They fake a lot of diverse people contributing, much like a bartender will put a dollar bill in the tip jar to kind of get things rolling. And we pride ourselves on this being authentic because there’s so much lying in our industry. Everything is fake and just false and spun. So we wanted it to be a place that was authentic. So we basically committed to just providing overwhelming value across a spectrum of disciplines and then inviting folks into that space and encourage them to engage. And we are going to go the earnestness route by keeping the monetization down and the authenticity up, the business plan is to encourage folks to engage because of the uniqueness of the space. That’s why we didn’t do this on Facebook. Facebook’s not private. The folks on Facebook will sell your keystrokes to your employer. And as a business consultant, I can tell you that most, once you hit a certain size, most employers have a line item in their budget to buy your keystrokes from Facebook so they know exactly what you’re posting on your feed. So we’re not going to do that. We’re keeping it private. We’re keeping it familiar. So it kind of does look like a social media feed, but basically we’re being earnest and we are filling it with a lot of great people with a broad spectrum of information and encouraging folks to engage. And we are not expecting it to suddenly become a huge party. We are trying to make it a place where people who are damaged, who are addicted to busyness, who are hurt by burnout, can just come and feel that they can kind of lurk in their safety. And then when they see something that’s really interesting, that then maybe, just maybe, they’ll throw up a comment or maybe even a post. And then they’ll recognize that networking on our platform will provide them a lot of value in their journey. And, you know, that is the business case. And I tell you, Mark, that everybody tells us that we’re wasting our time, that we’re going to fail. But at this point in my career, at this point in John’s career, we should be adjunct faculty at a university and we should be mentoring those folks. And the point is there is no place for us, for clinicians like us, for healthcare professionals like us in the system. There is no place for us because the people playing the bills don’t want us to say what needs to be said. And so we created our own place. And we’re hoping that unique combination of earnestness, of overwhelming value and familiarity really leads to engagement. And you know what? We’re into this to the long haul. We’re self-funding it. Nobody else is paying the bills. And honestly the expense of setting us up is relatively modest so I’m basically seeing this as my third career and so far we’ve had a blast
Dr. Mark Leeds [29:55] Yeah that’s great and there’s definitely a need for it’s definitely you know I see it as something that’s definitely going to take off and I’d like to join I mean where can I go to join up right now
Tom Davis, MD [30:07] Well, we are available on the major app stores on Google Play and on the App Store and the Apple platform. You can also go to newscriptcommunity.com and learn more about it. Honestly, Mark, we’ve been surprised by how well this has been received. So we’re really moving up our expansion plans. And there’s going to be a lot more cool stuff on it. And you would be welcome. Anybody who’s listening, welcome. Tell me that or tell us that you heard about us on Mark’s show. And we would we would love to engage you. Just come and look because there’s a whole world out there for you don’t have to stay on the treadmill. Treadmill is not your fate. It’s a choice.
Dr. Mark Leeds [30:52] That’s great. So it’s actually so I could just go to the app store, Android or iPhone and just look for NewScript.
Tom Davis, MD [30:58] Yeah, just search for NewScript on either of the app stores or go to newscriptcommunity.com and the links are right there.
Dr. Mark Leeds [31:05] Oh, that’s perfect. Well, that’s great. Yeah, I’m really looking forward to seeing how this progresses because there’s definitely a need for this. So, Dr. Tom Davis, thank you again for joining me today.
