What did Dr. Steven Reichbach describe about ketamine and suicidal thoughts?
In August 2023, I spoke with Dr. Steven Reichbach, an anesthesiologist who has worked with ketamine for about three decades. His clinic gives ketamine by intravenous infusion to people with certain mood disorders and certain chronic nerve pain conditions.
We talked about how he uses ketamine with people who have severe depression and suicidal thoughts, a case that combined both with chronic pain, and what a course of infusions actually involves.
This is an archive episode, recorded when the show covered addiction and mental health broadly. The conversation touches on suicidal thoughts. If you are struggling right now, please reach out, and the help line at the end of this description is there for you.
What did he notice in patients who also had obsessive-compulsive disorder?
At 1:11, Dr. Reichbach said that some small studies had looked at low doses of ketamine for obsessive-compulsive disorder, or OCD. He was speaking anecdotally from his own clinic. Many of the people he sees for severe depression, anxiety, or a history of trauma also live with OCD, and he described their intrusive thoughts seeming to fade during infusions given for those other reasons.
From 2:28, he explained that his clinic began with a narrow group of patients and, in his words, kept widening its scope as he saw other symptoms change.
What was the case he described?
At 4:09, Dr. Reichbach described a woman of about forty who came to his clinic with severe depression and suicidal thoughts. She had been diagnosed years earlier with syringomyelia and multiple sclerosis. She was living with severe pain all day, every day, had trouble walking, and had marked weakness in her arms and legs.
In his view, her pain was driving much of her despair. After examining her, he concluded that she most likely had complex regional pain syndrome, which had never been diagnosed. So, he began with his clinic’s pain protocol, which he said differs from its depression protocol.
In his account, her pain, skin sensitivity, and sleep changed within the first infusions, and her mood shifted at about the same time. He said she described a sense of well-being she had not felt in years. This is one clinician’s description of one patient, and he presented it that way.
What is complex regional pain syndrome?
Later in that same answer, Dr. Reichbach explained complex regional pain syndrome, or CRPS. He called it a diagnosis of exclusion. It does not show up on an X-ray or a lab test, and it is made from the history, the physical examination, and a set of characteristic signs.
Those signs, as he described them, include extreme sensitivity of the skin to light touch, discoloration, swelling, and temperature differences. It often follows trauma to a limb, such as surgery or an injury.
Interestingly, he said he uses ketamine as a diagnostic tool as much as a treatment. When pain is out of proportion to anything that can be found, and it keeps getting worse, he suspects the pain is coming from the spinal cord and brain rather than from an injured nerve.
Why are people with invisible pain so often disbelieved?
At 10:21, I described what often happens to people with this kind of pain. They go to a pain clinic, there is no scan that shows anything, and they are told they must be making it up. Not only are they in extreme pain, nobody believes them. Of course, they become depressed, and many become suicidal.
At 12:37, Dr. Reichbach recommended a documentary, Take Care of Maya, about a patient with complex regional pain syndrome. In his view, it shows the struggles and hurdles I had just described.
How did he explain the way ketamine is thought to work?
From 14:10, Dr. Reichbach walked through the mechanism as it is currently understood. He stressed that it is thought to differ from that of the oral antidepressants and mood stabilizers, which are aimed at raising serotonin, dopamine, or norepinephrine levels.
In his explanation, ketamine sets off a chain of chemical reactions in the brain that involves a surge of glutamate. That chain ends in the release of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which is thought to strengthen the connections between nerve cells. He described these as physical changes that are thought to begin within hours of an infusion.
Why did he say timing matters for someone in crisis?
Later in that answer, he contrasted that with oral medications, where a person may wait several weeks to see whether one works, and then start over with another. When someone is suicidal, he said, there may not be weeks to wait.
He said psychiatrists sometimes call him about a patient who is suicidal and ask to try infusions before the patient is admitted to a hospital. In his view, that time factor can be extremely valuable. However, that is his clinical experience, and it is not a substitute for emergency care when someone is in danger.
What does a course of infusions involve?
At 16:58, I asked how a person should plan for treatment, since I understood that someone should not drive or work for the rest of the day after an infusion. From 17:36, Dr. Reichbach described his protocol. He gives an initial series of infusions within two to three weeks, usually two or three visits a week, and each infusion takes at least an hour.
At 20:18, he said he has sometimes spread infusions out or given them on consecutive days. Yet, in his view, a two to three week window works best.
At 21:06, he added that some patients come after work. They can expect to feel lethargic and a little foggy for a few hours. They are told not to drive for a full day, and most, he said, are back to normal by the next morning.
What is the dissociative experience like?
Also at 17:36, Dr. Reichbach was direct that ketamine belongs to a class of drugs called dissociative drugs. It is mind-altering, especially at higher doses, and patients notice it even at lower ones.
He said many of his patients find the experience warm and meaningful. Unfortunately, some people strongly dislike any loss of control, with their thoughts drifting in directions they cannot steer. For them, he said, he slows the infusion so there is very little dissociation, because in his view the effect he is after does not depend on it.
He also pushed back on what he called misinformation. Some patients arrive expecting visions. In fact, he tells them they do not need that kind of experience at all.
Who is Dr. Steven Reichbach?
Dr. Steven Reichbach is an anesthesiologist who has worked with ketamine for about three decades. At the time of our conversation, his clinic had offered intravenous ketamine infusions for about eight years.
What can listeners take away from this conversation?
This conversation is one physician’s account of his own practice, and every claim about ketamine in it is his. The limits he named are worth holding on to. Ketamine is a mind-altering drug, it means no driving for a full day after each infusion, some people find the dissociation unpleasant, and a pain diagnosis like complex regional pain syndrome rests on careful examination rather than a test.
So, anyone curious about it should bring their questions to their own physician, including what is known, what is not, and what the risks are for them. If you are having thoughts of suicide, please reach out to someone today rather than waiting for any treatment.
How do I approach this today?
Today my practice focuses on helping people come off benzodiazepines and other medications gradually, and on medication for alcohol and opioid dependence. Physical dependence is not addiction, and the safest way off is usually slow.
Call 911 or go to an emergency department if there is a seizure, confusion or hallucinations, or thoughts of self-harm. For thoughts of suicide or any mental health crisis, you can also call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
This page is educational. It is not medical advice, and listening to the episode or reading this page does not create a doctor-patient relationship. Decisions about starting, continuing, or tapering any medication should be made with your own physician.
Full transcript
A note from Dr. Leeds: my guests speak from their own experience and expertise, and the terminology they use is their own. Whatever the topic, this show holds to one distinction: physical dependence on a prescribed medication is not addiction. This transcript is educational content, not medical advice, and nothing here creates a doctor-patient relationship.
Read the full transcript (26 minutes)
Dr. Mark Leeds [00:00] Dr. Steven Reichbach, welcome. Welcome to the podcast. How are you? Great, great. So, yeah, we spoke a while back, and I remember you’re an anesthesiologist by training, and you’ve been working with ketamine for at least three decades. Is that right? About 30 years?
Dr. Steven Reichbach [00:20] Yep, been working with it for about three decades, and we’ve been specifically treating patients for the last eight years in our clinic here with ketamine, intravenous ketamine, to treat certain mood disorders and also certain chronic neuropathic pain syndromes?
Dr. Mark Leeds [00:39] Yeah. You know, the one thing I’ve been hearing a lot about lately is how, and I know it’s effective for a lot of things, especially treatment-resistant depression, where antidepressants don’t work. And I know it works for a lot of different things, but I’ve been hearing great things about ketamine for OCD, for obsessive compulsive disorder. And, you know, just patients, yeah, patients are coming out of treatment, just saying that the symptoms are gone. They’re just, they’re just not getting those intrusive invasive thoughts and repetitive actions and thoughts.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [01:11] Absolutely. There have been some small studies that have been done using ketamine, relatively low doses, sub-anesthetic doses to treat patients with OCD, and the results and the responses have been really, really impressive. I can tell you anecdotally from our practice, a lot of patients that we treat with severe depression, anxiety disorders, trauma history, they also have underlying OCD. And one of the things that’s been really, really impressive to me is how that seems to be something that has helped a great deal going through these infusions, even for those other diagnoses, that these intrusive thoughts, as you mentioned, seem to really wane and patients, the symptoms that they’re dealing with related to the OCD seemed to improve in a really relatively quick period of time.
Dr. Mark Leeds [02:14] Yeah, that’s something that’s, I think, really interesting. That’s great that you’re able to see, you’re kind of able to do like an ongoing study of seeing, you know, when people come in for one thing, you can observe like what other things improve.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [02:28] Absolutely. When we first started the practice, you know, most of the original studies using ketamine, intravenous ketamine were done on patients with quote-unquote treatment-resistant depression. And when we started the practice, the scope of patients that we were treating was much more narrow than it is right now. Just by having treated patients with treatment-resistant depression and coexisting anxiety disorders, and usually there’s some history of significant trauma, and again, OCD and the branches of the tree just keep getting wider. Seeing how these other symptoms seem to wane and improve sort of has allowed us to keep widening the scope of patients that we’re starting to treat with ketamine to see if it can help when other treatments or other whatever modes of therapy have not helped in the past.
Dr. Mark Leeds [03:35] Yeah, it’s really incredible. And I think you’re just going to keep discovering more and more. And I think the thing that we were going to talk about today was related to treating suicidality. And I think that there was even in an email that I got from your practice, like a description of a case of someone who had positive results of, you know, they were suicidal and were treated with ketamine and had a very good result. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about ketamine infusion or ketamine treatment for suicidality?
Dr. Steven Reichbach [04:09] Sure. I think the case that you’re alluding to was a young woman, about 40 years old, came to the practice with issues related to severe depression, suicidal ideations. And the main issue with her was she had been diagnosed with a severe chronic pain condition. She was diagnosed years earlier with a condition known as syringomyelia and also multiple sclerosis. And she was struggling with severe chronic pain all day, every day, 10 out of 10. She was having trouble ambulating. She had extreme weakness in her upper extremities and lower extremities. And as a result of that, she was suffering with severe depression and suicidal thoughts, intrusive thoughts. So it was really a matter of we treat patients also of IV ketamine, which is where the protocol is completely different, patients with certain chronic neuropathic pain syndromes. There’s a, not all pain conditions will respond to ketamine, but conditions that have a large central pain component compared to a peripheral neuropathic pain component. And there is an entity or a condition known as CRPS or complex regional pain syndrome that a portion of the population will struggle with. And it often goes undiagnosed and patients will describe symptoms of pain and very often they’ll have other diagnoses as well. And when she came to us, it seemed to me that trying to deal with her pain condition would help a lot, not only with, hopefully with the pain, but also with her mental state at that point. And I was not clear initially as to whether she would, the patient that would respond to ketamine. But after we started talking and I examined her, it became clear to me that she most likely had a diagnosis of CRPS or complex regional pain syndrome, which had not been diagnosed earlier. And a lot of times patients can develop CRPS from a pre-existing condition. You see a lot of patients who’ve been diagnosed with Lyme disease and a large portion of them will end up with a diagnosis of CRPS. A lot of autoimmune issues sometimes can result in a diagnosis of CRPS, but generally it’s some sort of trauma, usually to an extremity, usually after surgery or an injury or even a bug bite. In her case, it seems that this was sort of a result of prior surgery later to these other conditions and had it gone undiagnosed. CRPS is one of the conditions that responds extremely well to intravenous ketamine in relatively large doses. So I use it oftentimes. CRPS is a diagnosis of exclusion. You know, you’re not going to see it on x-rays. You’re not going to see it on lab tests. It’s really a diagnosis based on history, physical exam, and certain characteristics or manifestations that go along with it. And she fit most of the criteria for CRPS. So we began treating her with higher doses of ketamine. And lo and behold, her pain level dropped almost immediately after the first infusion or two. Her allodynia, which is a very common manifestation of CRPS, which is extreme skin sensitivity, even to very light touch. Her upper extremities were somewhat discolored. They were purplish intermittently. She had some swelling in her upper extremities. Temperature changes or temperature differences between the areas that are affected and the areas that aren’t, there’s a differentiation there. Almost immediately, these corresponding symptoms seem to improve as well as her overall pain level. She started sleeping at night, which she hadn’t been doing before. And it was almost miraculous how quickly and how significant the improvement was. In addition, almost immediately, we do treat patients with suicidal ideations and major depression, which is a different protocol than treating patients with chronic pain. But almost in the same time frame, the depression seemed to lift. She described a feeling of well-being that she hadn’t experienced in at least 10 years, almost getting the elephant off my chest. The anxiety seemed to abate quite a bit. And the suicidal ideations completely, completely run away almost immediately. So to answer your question, yeah, they’re trying to figure out the protocols are completely different. When we’re treating a patient purely from a pain standpoint, I will use ketamine as a diagnostic tool as much as a therapeutic tool. Oftentimes, it’s not as clear cut as we would like trying to figure out a diagnosis. So know that if a patient does respond to ketamine, there’s likely a large central component to the pain. And what I mean by that is that the pain almost emanates in the spinal cord of the brain as opposed to an actual injury affecting a peripheral nerve. So when the pain that patients come in with and what they describe is out of proportion to anything that we can put our fingers on, it doesn’t make sense. It’s getting worse instead of getting better. The presumption is that there’s probably a large central pain component to it. And by administering ketamine, you can oftentimes sort of narrow in on
Dr. Mark Leeds [10:21] Yeah, yeah, that you when you talk about that complex regional pain syndrome, which, you know, they used to call RSD, and, you know, and people I mean, in addition to being in this intractable pain, you know, for years, they couldn’t get relief, you know, they might show up to a pain clinic, the pain clinic says, Well, where’s your, your low back MRI, and it’s like, Well, there’s no MRI, there’s nothing you can see. And you know they say well you’re you know you must be making it up because we can’t test anything you know just because he had a crush injury or whatever you know like you know there’s usually not not a test to prove the person has it and you know and so they go you know not only are they in pain but like extreme pain nobody believes them and of course you’re going to get depressed and a lot of people get suicidal and you know and then you know some of these conditions you know, that for years, doctors would tell patients that’s not real, because I remember that with fibromyalgia, that all the doctors are saying that this is a made up condition, nobody really has it. And then suddenly a big pharma comes out with a treatment indicated for fibromyalgia, and suddenly everybody believes it now. You know, it’s like, what happened? You know, just billions of dollars got thrown at it. And there’s some, whatever it was, an SSRI or some kind of neurotransmitter type reuptake inhibitor thing. And now it’s a real condition with a diagnosis code and we all believe it now. You know, so the, yeah, it is interesting how the medical, the healthcare industry is kind of controlled by the pharmaceutical industry. And here you are, you’re providing a treatment that it’s off label. So you have some flexibility that, you know, you’re not at the mercy of, you know, has it been approved for something, you know, has the pharmaceutical industry blessed it with, you know, saying this is, you know, it’s just, it’s great that now people, you know in the old days you know you can’t go to a pain clinic because it’s opioids it’s there’s a stigma attached to that and of course they now know they’re much more addicting than we thought they were before but ketamine is I think it’s been around for like 50 years now we know it’s safe and we know like how it works and what it does and you’re an expert and you’ve been doing it for 30 years and now we’re seeing that these things that people had nowhere to turn before have some something they can do for it now
Dr. Steven Reichbach [12:37] Absolutely for sure there’s actually just as an aside, I don’t know whether you’ve seen it or heard of it. There’s a wonderful documentary that just came out related to ketamine and treating a specific patient with complex regional pain syndrome with ketamine and pretty much everything, all the struggles and hurdles you just described. It just came out on Netflix. It’s called Take Care of Maya, M-A-Y-A, And it is absolutely wonderful. So if you get a chance, I would highly recommend taking a look at that.
Dr. Mark Leeds [13:11] Yeah, yeah, definitely. I’m going to look at that. And, you know, and that’s another great thing is that ketamine has, you know, all the benefits people are talking about these up and coming psychedelic treatments. We already have something ketamine that does all the things that we’re hoping for with like psilocybin and some of the other ones, but it’s been FDA approved forever. You know, it’s well understood. You know, the research has been done already. And, you know, so rather than someone waiting around for, you know, or going to try something that’s risky, you know, here’s something that, you know, an anesthesiologist. Yeah, yeah. And it’s incredible. And can you talk a little bit about the mechanisms? You know, like they, you know, there’s a mechanism of something to do with the neurotransmitters, glutamate and GABA and anti-inflammatory effect. And also dendritic growth or neurogenesis. I mean, you know, so there’s some really interesting mechanisms.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [14:10] 100%. Ketamine itself has been around, as you said, for about 50 years. It’s been studied extensively for its antidepressant effects. Over the last 20 years, it’s been researched, it’s been studied. And the reason that it’s been shown to be effective in treatment-resistant patients is that the thought is that the mechanism of action is completely different than the SSRIs, SNRIs, mood stabilizers. What the ketamine is thought to do is really initiate a series of chemical reactions in the brain after it binds to these NMDA receptors, which cause a flood of glutamate to be produced. The glutamate then binds to another receptor in parts of the brain. And the ultimate response is to release a neurotransmitter or a peptide bond called BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which then, as you said, induces a strengthening of the dendritic spines, which are the connections between these neurons, proliferation of neurons in these mood centers of the brain. And these physical or hardwired changes that the ketamine induces are thought to be what seem to correspond to a relatively fast or rapid improvement in overall mood, lifting of depression, easing of anxiety. So we’re looking more towards the physical changes that it causes as opposed to trying to increase serotonin levels, dopamine levels, norepinephrine levels, which most of the oral medications are sort of geared towards doing. And these physical changes that ketamine is thought to induce happen very quickly. You know, within two to six hours after an infusion, these changes are starting to take place. So we are treating a patient with a mood disorder, not having to wait four weeks, five weeks, six weeks to see if it’s even going to work. And if it doesn’t, we’ve got to start with another medication and wait another couple of weeks to see if that’s effective. With ketamine, you know, if you have a suicidal patient, you know, you don’t necessarily have weeks to wait to see if the medication is going to take hold. So we’ll get calls from psychiatrists who want to refer a patient who’s suicidal, who’s got a plan, who’s really intent on following through. And they basically say to me, we’d like to try this before we have to admit the patient for inpatient treatment and see if this helps. And very often, the majority of the time, it does. And so that time factor can be extremely valuable in these kinds of places.
Dr. Mark Leeds [16:58] Yeah. So if someone wanted to get started with this and, you know, they want to plan for it, you know, they want to plan like, you know, what do I have to do? Because, you know, I know that like if you get a ketamine infusion, you shouldn’t plan to do any more activities for the rest of the day or probably 24 hours, you know, as far as driving or working or anything like that. And, you know, that, you know, so you have to plan for like a day off at least. And like how often, like how many infusions would somebody usually get? Like for, you know, typically like how often and how many would they likely need?
Dr. Steven Reichbach [17:36] Sure. So the protocol I follow is to do six initial infusions and we try to do them within a two to three week time frame. So the majority of patients will come to the office either twice a week over three weeks or three times a week over two weeks. The infusions last a minimum of about an hour. So when I say a minimum of an hour, we plan to do it over an hour. The majority of patients that go through ketamine, and ketamine is in a class of drugs known as dissociative drugs. So it is a mind-altering drug, especially at higher doses. But even at lower doses, patients do experience mind-altering effects to it. The majority of patients find the experience extremely warm and nurturing and transformative. Transformative and all of their questions are answered. They feel that they’re benefiting from the experience as well as the actual physical changes that I was discussing before, as far as being what the research has shown to be the ultimate reason behind ketamine’s effectiveness to treat these mood disorders. However, there are patients who don’t like that feeling of any kind of loss of control and their mind sort of going off in different directions that they can’t control. And for those patients, we’re very careful to make sure that they’re able to tolerate the infusion okay. If I was to give you, let’s say, 50 milligrams of ketamine over one hour or the same 50 milligrams over two hours, over two hours, you’re probably going to feel more or less like you feel right now. There’s going to be very little of any mind-altering aspect to it, very little dissociation. But for me, the ultimate response is going to be the same. It’s going to be the 50 milligrams of ketamine that’s working on those parts of the brain to elicit these improvements. So patients that don’t want to go through any kind of mind-altering dissociation or anything that they don’t feel comfortable with, they don’t have to. And there’s a lot of misinformation out there patients a lot of research they’ll say wow I didn’t I didn’t know I didn’t meet god or I didn’t I wasn’t flying through the sky with you know watching rainbows and I have to tell them that they don’t you know you don’t have to go through that experience in order to get the benefit it’s really just the ketamine either doing what we’re not doing what hopefully we’re hoping it does do
Dr. Mark Leeds [20:04] Yeah and now someone and so you said you start with six treatments that might be around an hour or more like how often would they come in like would it be like once a week
Dr. Steven Reichbach [20:13] Generally two to three times a week
Dr. Mark Leeds [20:15] Oh okay yeah
Dr. Steven Reichbach [20:18] We’ve done them for patients coming from further away who don’t have the time luxury we’ve done them on consecutive days and we’ve done one a week over six weeks or over four weeks. But I think in a perfect world, trying to do these infusions within a two to three week timeframe, most likely results in a better, a better outcome.
Dr. Mark Leeds [20:42] Okay. So, yeah. So if a person is able to, you know, if they’re working, if they can schedule a couple of weeks off and get it done and then, and then there’s lasting benefits after that. In many cases or most cases, if they are able to get, they get through these six treatments in a couple of weeks, you know, unlike, you know, the traditional antidepressants, it’s not something you have to keep doing every day or frequently.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [21:06] Just as a sort of an aside, we do have patients who will come after work and do an infusion. And yeah, you can expect to be a little bit more lethargic and a little bit, you know, maybe cloudier in your head for a couple of hours after. We tell patients you can’t drive for 24 hours, but for the most part, by the next day, the majority of patients are pretty much back to baseline and they’re able to go to work. So there’s kind of different ways to handle the scheduling and that kind of thing.
Dr. Mark Leeds [21:38] Okay. So a person doesn’t necessarily have to plan for two weeks of doing nothing. They could probably just continue with their normal life and just, you know, do the treatment in the evening. That sounds good. I mean, it’s not, you know, it’s a, you know, now also, how do you feel about, and this is a whole different topic, but medical cannabis, you know, which is like a whole different thing. It’s not, it’s legal and not legal at the same time. So like doctors don’t prescribe it, but doctor, at least in Florida, doctors are involved with it, you know, with recommending it or getting people registered. Like, how do you feel about that generally?
Dr. Steven Reichbach [22:19] Well, I’m actually a proponent of it in many instances. And we have a large number of our ketamine patients who have medical cannabis cards. For the types of patients that we treat, sleep is often an issue, a major issue. And when patients or people don’t sleep, it affects every aspect of their lives. If they’re in chronic pain, chronic pain is worse. If they’re depressed and anxious, it makes the depression and the anxiety worse. And many of them have been on medications to try to help with sleep, and nothing’s really done the trick, or they don’t want to be on Xanax or Klonopin for the rest of their lives to help them sleep because of the tolerance and to keep increasing the dose. And I have found that cannabis can be extremely helpful for helping with sleep. And I think that for the right patients and the right routes of administration and for certain patients who deal with, you know, so many anxiety at times, I think that medical cannabis can be a real benefit to a lot of these people. As well as patients with certain chronic pain conditions where they’ve been relying on opioids in the past and other more addictive type medications. Medical cannabis, I think a lot of them has helped transition them off of other medications, more addictive medications, and helped preserve their liver and kidneys better than using a lot of these other medications. So I think under the right supervision for the right patients, medical cannabis can be an extremely important tool for a lot of these patients.
Dr. Mark Leeds [24:05] Yeah, I’ve noticed because I’ve worked with a lot of people who are tapering off of either benzodiazepines or other psychiatric medications that it helps with the tapering process and withdrawal and insomnia, you know, like you’re saying. And it seems like it’s usually the, I don’t know what the big difference is, but the gummies, you know, I guess like where you know you’re taking it orally and you know exactly what the milligrams are. You know, I remember a patient, she asked me, is it okay if I take a quarter of a gummy to help me get to sleep when she couldn’t get to sleep? And it was definitely a lot, as far as I was aware, a lot safer than pretty much anything I could prescribe to her.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [24:39] I 100% agree with that. Yeah.
Dr. Mark Leeds [24:45] So, yeah, it seems like there could be some complementary benefit of a person who goes for ketamine treatment, but also is able to benefit from medical cannabis if they’re open to that.
Dr. Steven Reichbach [24:57] Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more on that.
Dr. Mark Leeds [25:01] Steven Reichbach, thank you. Thank you for joining me today. And, yeah, how can people get in touch with you if they’re interested in learning about how to schedule a series of treatments or learn more about ketamine treatment?
Dr. Steven Reichbach [25:12] Sure. I’m here every day during the week, 8 to 5, 8 to 6. […] I’m happy to speak to anybody if they have any questions relating to ketamine treatment, if they’re a candidate, if they’ve just got questions out of curiosity. We have a website with a lot of resources a lot of information […] that’s also a good resource something to look through if you’re interested in any of this so yeah that those are the ways to get in touch if patients would like
Dr. Mark Leeds [25:52] Oh perfect Dr. Reichbach thank you again for joining me today
Dr. Steven Reichbach [25:56] Thank you sir it was a pleasure meeting with you again
