These Things Happen: A Journey of Addiction, Recovery, Acceptance, and Surrender.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:00:04]:

Michael Eon, author of these things happen, a new upcoming book, which is coming out on the 19th of, this month, September 2023. Welcome to the podcast.

Michael Eon [00:00:16]:

Thanks for having me, Dr. Leeds. It’s good to meet you.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:00:19]:

Oh, it’s nice to meet you. Yeah, so I I read this book and I I I loved it. That people are really gonna love this book when they when they get it. And it’s, e even for people who have no interest in addiction or alcoholism or recovery, it it’s a great story. It’s it’s just it really had me on the edge of my seat. I just wanted to see what’s gonna happen next to each of the characters. And, you know, I kinda feel like I I I know them. And interestingly, I was I I’ve been back and forth to Brooklyn a lot lately because I have some family that lives there now, and I was just there a week ago. And so just reading through it, a lot of I think the whole thing takes place in Brooklyn, and a lot of the street names and locations were were familiar in the the trains and stations and things like that. So I I kinda had a feeling for it just from my because when I’m when I’m there, I don’t I’ve tried not to take a car or take the train. I try to walk everywhere. So You see all the churches and all the people in the street and just wonder, like, you know, who are these people that live in these brownstones and apartments and go to these churches and things? So it was really, For me, it was a a great story. Yeah, so tell me a little bit about, like, what how did this come about? What made you decide to write this and what went into it?

Michael Eon [00:01:28]:

Well, I started, basically, I’m an alcoholic and an addict. And, And as part of my recovery in the 12 offset program of AA, I did it, I I went through the step and and, I started doing my writing in step 4, which is the moral inventory piece. And, of course, I had a ton of resentments And, as I was, as I as I was writing all that down, I started to remember all these different, things from from the past and my childhood And what I would start doing on the side is journaling these kind of memory stories, of things that had actually happened And, of course, there was a lot of anger and, and, rage in in that at the time. Because, you know, I was in a place where I hadn’t done, you know, the recovery work, what I was abstinent. So that’s can be a, a precarious place to to exist. And, my wife got ahold of some of them, and she was like, wow, you should you should write a book. You know, you should put these into a book. And, I started, I started, thinking about that. And I, I’ve crafted a, a more of a experimental story. It was about a guy kind of trapped, in a prison of his own making. So he’s kind of trapped in his own head and he it was this conversation between him and a voice. And I was told as I started to to get down the road with that, that that was real experimental and, you know, probably not the traditional way novels are are written, and, and that I should try and bring it closer to, to more popular fiction. And that’s how it, that’s how it evolved. So it took a lot of, it went through a lot of iterations to get to, to the point, to, to where it is now in terms of a final book. But it is, it is based on a lot of experience that I had, both inactive addiction and in recovery. So, I think it can be helpful to you know, not just an addict or or an alcoholic, or or someone who knows, you know, someone like that, but but to anyone. I mean, the principles, that that are outlined in the book by various characters, who are in recovery are, you know, anybody can benefit from. So, so I’m looking forward to its release.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:04:01]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I can imagine that a lot of people, going into recovery and getting, you know, becoming absent and getting the drugs and the alcohol out of their system they kinda wake up and see how things are around them. And and I can imagine a person having resentments and being angry and And it’s not totally unjustified. You know, families and, other people can really contribute. And, you know, you you show that in the story, you know, the sickness of a a family and, you know, someone growing up as a child and developing a an addiction along the way, you know, that it’s You can see, like, look at what the parents did to them. Look at how they were treated, you know, and, that’s, you know, I can imagine, like, that must be a difficult thing for someone to say, like, you know, what was your part in this? What did what did you do wrong or, you know, what mean, how how does someone come to terms with that? Like, you know, when you feel like it was other people.

Michael Eon [00:04:55]:

Yeah. That’s a great point because, I remember when I was going through the process, of writing, on those resentments. And I got to, you know, what, what we call the turnaround section where we forget about what the other person did. And we look at what our part was. And, and, you know, I I I’m I need to go through each one of these and say, where am I being selfish, dishonest, and self seeking, and it’s like, I’m like, how how could I be selfish. What did I do to have that happen to me? And, and the issue is, for me, what it all came down to is, first of all, I gotta forget about what the other person did because it’s swollen inside of me since I’m a child. I gotta get it out of me. I have no drugs or alcohol to kill the pain anymore. And, I’m either gonna go back out, or I’m gonna try and give this a real effort. So that’s the first thing. And the second thing is I have to realize that I had no bottom line for me was that, you know, I I can’t control what other people do. I mean, in a sense, I wasn’t just powerless over alcohol and drugs. I was powerless over people places and things. I mean, I had no tools, to deal with life on life’s terms. And I had to say to myself, and of course, as we know, in 4th step, we realize that everything is driven by fear, fear that I thought I didn’t have when I got there, but obviously, everything for me is driven by fear. And, and for me, it was, you know, self centered fear, fear of losing something I already had or not getting something I feel I deserved. And I had to come to terms with the fact that I can’t control everything, and this fear of of of trying to make sure the world is the way I want it to be, you know, is irrational. It it it it it it only leads to futility because your expectations are always high and and you’re always let down. So, so I had to let go of all that. I had to, you know, make amends to, to the people that I blamed for everything wrong in my life, you know, by basically telling them, hey, I I blamed you for everything. And I’m sorry. Because, you know, they they’re all we’re all human beings trying to make our way. And we all have, especially as a as a child, you don’t realize that your parents had their own childhoods, their own struggles, their own ways of dealing with things, or not being able to deal with things. And, and, you know, just by virtue of the fact that they’re my parents, you know, I thought they owed me, but the reality is we’re all just trying to make our way. And if I don’t if I don’t understand that and and forgive that, then I’m I I’m you know, it’s just gonna slow inside in the end. I can’t you know, I’m gonna it’s gonna cause me to go back out and drink, you know.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:07:55]:

Yeah. If if you were, you know, suppose if you were in a meeting and and someone, you know, and there was discussion about about god, in a higher power. And someone were to ask you, let’s say someone had a parent sick and dying from cancer. And they said, why why would god cure or treat my addiction, but not cure or treat my parents’ cancer.

Michael Eon [00:08:18]:

Yeah. I mean, for me, it’s always been I’m not of the belief that that that god allows or it doesn’t allow things. You know, because like you just said, that would mean for me that why did he do this for me, but not for someone else? And I can’t imagine any kind of higher power or god or or or anything that that that could operate that way personally. That’s my personal belief. I had always believed in a power greater than myself. But this per this idea of a personal god was always, an obstacle for me. And really, the way I view the steps and the way it asks, for me to, to trust and rely on a power greater than myself is a lot about me staying out of my own way, trying to not interject myself into the universe, to let the universe play out as it should, and to kind of create this relationship with this entity, you know, in in the back of the big book, there’s a spiritual, appendix, and it refers to a higher power as an unsuspecting inner resource in all of us. And that’s what I try and identify with. That, that kind of intuitive thought or that 6th, 66th sense, you know, I, I try it, you know, it’s not a religious program, and I don’t view it as a, a religious program. And I don’t, I try to, to really, you know, I use the terms when I’m in meetings I use the term of higher power and not god because I know immediately people, you know, don’t want anything to do with that. Sometimes, because of the way they’re brought up into religion and things like that. But for me, it’s, it’s a power source and a combination of that, combination of the knowledge, that I gained from the 4th step in knowing who I am and how will I I, what character defects I have and, and how I can understand to, how, you know, to deal with those. And, and, you know, it’s a combination of all these things that enables me to deal with life, you know, on life’s terms. And, it’s honestly for me, it’s it’s been a blessing, because I’ve gotten so I went in for my drinking and I stayed for my thinking and, and I I, you know, I, I I people don’t people don’t people who’d used to know me have no idea who I am today. Because it’s it’s just such a, 180 degree difference.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:11:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. That that’s an incredible thing when people go into recovery and you you meet them later on and don’t even recognize recognize who they are. It’s like a whole different person and conversations are on a different level and it’s it’s, yeah, it’s really incredible.

Michael Eon [00:11:17]:

Yeah.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:11:19]:

So I I think one of the one topic that came up and and that topic of of god does come up in the book, and it is it is really interesting, you know, how different characters, deal with that. And, I think also another, subject that comes up several times is surrender. And, you know, that kinda makes me think of, like, you know, some patients I’ve I’ve worked with where they’ve been in recovery before. They’ve had years of of time going to AA and being very involved in the program. Another back and active addiction. And, you know, they’ve kinda feel like they’ve tried everything. They’ve been to the best of of therapists. They’ve tried all the best medical treatments. They’ve been there. They’ve done everything. And, you know, now it’s like, you know, they’re kind of they want they know that they have to stop. They know that something has to change, but they just don’t really believe that anything can work because they’ve been everywhere, tried everything. You know, how does that tie in with surrender, maybe, or how, like, What does surrender mean? And, like, what what could a person what what might someone say to a person like that where they just feel like nothing is gonna help them?

Michael Eon [00:12:24]:

Yeah. I mean, you know, the paradox of of the full step program is, is that, you know, in surrender that you actually find power. You know, you actually find the power, to deal with, to deal with life. And that that that’s because you know, in that surrender, I’m I’m giving, you know, I’m removing myself will from the from from the pro you know, from what’s happening. You know, I’m allowing, you know, I I use the term god or universe or higher power, force light, whatever it whatever you wanna call it interchangeably, but it’s allowing things to play out the way that they should without my you know, without without me trying to manipulate what I want out of it. And so surrender for me is not just, you know, surrendering to to to the to my powerless, no over alcohol and drugs, but it’s, you know, surrendering to to people places and things, you know, to look to to that idea that that, I mean, let me put it this way. My whole my whole world view before I went into recovery was trying to fit the world into me as opposed to trying to fit myself into the world as it is. And like I said, that that only leads to expectations that are never met. It it’s just it’s just a terrible it’s a it’s a it’s a terrible place to to be. And, and I had to hit an emotional rock bottom in sobriety. You know, there’s a term that’s used occasionally called stark rating sober. I mean, I was stark or even sober. I was absent. I was going to meetings, but I was, but I, you know, I heard someone say when I was in this place, in this you know, in this place of of stark raving sobriety. And I heard someone say, you know, the real definition of insanity joining a 12 step program and not doing the 12 steps. And I when when I heard that, it it hit me because it was like I didn’t think, you know, I was trying to pick and choose what I wanted. And I I feel that for me, because I worked so hard and because I hit such a despair in sobriety, emotionally that I was basically willing to accept what I was being told and to, and to give myself, you know, the opportunity to do what other people had done who seemed happy, joyous, free, serene, saying, you know, that it was either gonna be that, or I was gonna go back out and God knows if I was gonna get back, you know, come back and get, get back in if I was gonna make it out a lot. So it was like I had to I had to give it a chance, but I had to get to that point in sobriety where I was where, you know, where where things were horrible. I mean, I am I came closer to losing my family to losing, you know, my business, financial room, all these different things in sobriety than than I ever than I, you know, I came closer in sobriety than I had when I was active because when I was active, I, you know, it was just like, I wasn’t present and, you know, wasn’t bothering anybody. I wasn’t, you know, destroying lives like I I did when I when I got sober, and I was like the same person. Same angry, hateful person causing destruction wherever I went, because I wanted things my way. And, and so it’s hard because my my opinion is that is that it’s not that the 12 step program doesn’t work. It’s that the person doesn’t work. You know, I mean, I’ve seen people who who where it worked phenomenally. And I’ve seen people who are just in denial of the fact that they’re either an addict or an alcoholic, or that, you know, they can just come to meetings and and not drink and that everything’s gonna be okay. For me, that wasn’t enough. You know, I needed to do the step work. I needed to become a useful human being. I need to pay it forward, which is part of the reason why I wrote this book, honestly, to to to give people, you know, show people what it was like, and what happened and and and what it can be like and have tools to to to help people deal. Because like I said earlier, I think I think the principles of the 12 steps can apply to everybody, not just attics. You know, everybody. The the thing with, like, the 4th step, for example, what a what a novel idea. Forget about what the other person did and look at yourself. Look at what your part was. You know? I don’t think the majority of people today ever point that that, you know, that lighted themselves. You know, there was a saying I, I used to hear at meetings. I haven’t heard it in a while. I said put down the, put down the microscope and pick up the mirror, pick up a mirror, you know, like stop analyzing and judging and, and, and, and, condemning what everybody else is doing, every little thing they’re doing, and look at yourself, you know, and I think that’s a huge I think that’s a huge thing for for for anybody to do is because, you know, my wife used to say, and I don’t know where she got it. Probably, Dr. Phil or something. I don’t know. But it was like, like, you know, would you rather be right or would you rather be happy? You know, we’ve all heard that. And, and I was the one that always wanted to be bright. And so what I may have been right a lot, but it was but inside, it was showing me. And I, you know, and I didn’t realize how badly it was destroying me, that, that philosophy, that attitude. Today, I’d rather be happy. You know, and I let things go. And, and I, like, in surrender, there is there is strength. You know? That’s that’s my experience.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:18:30]:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s, it it does make sense that that the steps and and that way of thinking and way of living could help people even beyond addiction. And, I remember I I interviewed, another author a while back on the podcast. And, she had said something, and and I think there’s a lot of different ways this could be interpreted. She said, the program, and and it wasn’t AA. It was an AA derived program. Still using the big book and the twelve steps. But she said the program is about not being learning not to be a doormat. And, there’s so many ways you could interpret that. And, you know, I just right away with, yeah, not not letting everybody walk all over me and tell me what to do. And, I think a lot of people that, you know, you know, what you were meant to be in life or or some version of of what you were meant to be in life. And this is a tie, something that comes up in the book, a theme in the book. Of, you know, that your family might shape you into something else. They they push you in the direction they want you to go. And one day, you wake up, like, maybe you’re like, fifty years old or something. You’re like, that that’s not what I was meant to do. And, or hopefully sooner than that. But, that seemed that seems to be a part of it also of, You know, and also like what you’re saying, you know, the the principles. And I think I I the first step, the principles are being an an open mindedness, you know, being open minded, like, Wow. What what what’s my part in this? What could I do? And being honest and being willing to do something about it. So

Michael Eon [00:19:56]:

Yeah. For sure. I mean, you know, I, you know, one of the, one of the main factors, I mean, when I first came into recovery, you know, and I heard talk about fear, I would sit there and say, you know, I have no fear. I don’t know what these people are talking about. But like I said earlier, for me, you know, if I’m being honest with myself, because like open open mindedness, honesty is huge, you know, that to thine own self be true because, you know, I have a healthy respect for my mind because my mind is is not necessarily my friend. You know, I don’t know how I’m using that term, but it’s that part of me that that denies, that justifies, that rationalizes, that makes things sound better than they are. That makes me do things that I know I shouldn’t be doing. And, you know, I I treat that as almost a separate entity because, I I have to have control over that because for for all my life, it controlled me. And, you know, it, it led to anger and resentment and, you know, blame blaming everyone and everything for all my problems. And, you know, it’s just, you know, I’m not saying that why I drank a drug. That’s part of it. I mean, the other part of it is that I was I don’t know how if, technically, if I’m born that way or what, but I know that when I put a substance into me that is my goal to bring, I want more of it I love the feeling. And when I don’t have it, I’m obsessing about getting it. And, you know, and it’s that combination of that and maybe environmental factors that, that, you know, led me into addiction that became uncontrollable for most of my life. You know? And It’s a terrible place to be where where you’re, you know, you can’t live with it and you can’t live without it. You know? I mean, that’s that’s where our I ended up, and hit a rock bottom. And and and it’s it’s it’s I can’t even, you know, to someone who who doesn’t you know, who hasn’t been there, it’s really hard to explain, but it’s, it’s the absolute worst place to be. And, and I had to do something about it. So it’s crazy.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:22:18]:

What what do you think about forgiveness? You know, there’s some some people that say it’s been scientifically studied and demonstrated that be that being able to forgive everybody in your life that is actually physiologically beneficial, you know, that your your brain is able to get into, like, an alpha state, apparently. That’s the study they did. Know, if if you, forgive everybody, but which is not an easy thing to do, is is forgiveness part of the program, or is that something separate?

Michael Eon [00:22:45]:

Yeah. No. I mean, it it is. It’s a it’s a huge part in terms of making amends. You know, and like I said, I think I said earlier, when I was, when I was doing that, that step work, you know, I I I I held my family members and my father, for example, responsible for everything that went wrong in my life. And, and to be able to to sit down with him and and say, hey. You know, I blamed you for everything. You know, I, I don’t know if you know it or not, but I blamed you for all of my problems, everything that went wrong with me, why I didn’t go down the career path I on it. Why this? Why that? And, and I’m sorry. You know, I’m sorry for that. And he kinda looked like shocked and I don’t think I think he had an inkling of understanding, but I don’t think he knew the full extent, and we had the best conversation we’d ever had at to that. And, you know, he he said, though, you know, he appreciated it all that, you know, He I said, you can, you, you know, you can not be the way that that you are. You can change if you want to. And he said, no, I’m too old to change. And I said, If you cared enough, I think you could change, you know, and, and but we had a our relationship is great now. But previously, my my mindset the vast majority of my life was, I will never have peace until this man is dead and buried in the ground. You know, I mean, that was that was where I lived emotionally, mentally, for the vast majority of my life. So it I think it has a lot of truth, that study that you’re referring to, because, you know, I felt I felt a ton lighter after that, just from that conversation, let alone all the other ones, you know, but the goal today is just to not create new wreckage to keep my side of the street clean and, and to try and, you know, pay back what was freely given to me. You know? So I go to meetings every day, and I sponsor, other men and, and take them through the steps. And, you know, it honestly, I I’m it it’s surreal to even think about and have these, you know, hear these words come out of my mouth, but, it’s been a blessing for me. And, you know, I’m very grateful.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:25:15]:

Do you do you think, like, were you open minded to some extent, or did you do you feel like you had the, capability of being open minded ahead of time? Like, do you think it because it does sometimes seem like there’s people that, you know, like you said, like, your father, like, maybe that person just is never gonna get it. And but, do you think everybody has the the potential to be open minded and well, maybe these people are right. Maybe I do need to look at myself or try something different or think about things in a different way.

Michael Eon [00:25:43]:

You know, I think a lot of a lot of what we do as human beings, in terms of changing is is is pain motivated, despair motivated. And, and I I you know, I had had my share of that, and I became open minded into it. But when someone spends most of their life, creating wreckage and isn’t held accountable for it and gets away with it and doesn’t necessarily understand what they’re doing or how they’re treating people or things to that effect, then I don’t I don’t I don’t see how they could be open minded, you know, so the best that we can do on the other side is just try and be an example you know, of what could be. And, and and and and, you know, it’s this whole idea of of attraction, you know, not promotion. And, but so I think it depends on the person, and I think it depends greatly on on, you know, how their how how their how their how they truly feel their life is and whether they think they need to or not. You know?

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:27:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. So in a in a way, you know, going down relatively quickly, like, of of a person who say has a really bad drinking problem and binge drinking, and, they they don’t really last that long in the world drinking. They’re, you know, they they just drink way too much and, and they end up in, hopefully, in recovery and, and discover the program. Opposed to someone who might be what they call now a gray area drinker, someone that maybe binges occasionally or just drinks too much, but it never gets him to that point. It almost seems worse to be in that gray area drinking situation. I mean, they, you know, may never get a DUI or may never destroy their life or lose their job. But the that kind of gradual, you know, maybe they just never reached the potential of what they could have been or they never really open their mind or open their eyes to to what’s possible because they just have, you know, and, you know, I look around. I see a lot of people like that. You know, they’re just always having a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, and maybe they take medication to sleep and things like that, but not to the level of where someone could clearly point them out and say you’re an addict or an alcoholic, but they’re just kind of in that gray area long term.

Michael Eon [00:28:12]:

Yeah. I mean, that’s a great point because that’s that I’m, I’m sure there are a lot of people like that and, and it’s like, It’s like that’s where the, the honesty, you know, like, the honesty piece comes in about about, like, really, how is how, how do you think your life really is? You know, like, how, you know, you know, so you may not be a full blown addict yet or you may not be. But you’re not you know, necessarily, you know, spiritually fulfilled and sane and serene. And it’s like, you know, you’re, where is the motivation to, to change or do something? You know, it’s, it’s a, it’s a hard place to be. And I think, again, that’s where, you know, the fact that, like, with podcast, all of this communication about all these things now, you know, we have much more than just TV and film and books. I think it’s huge, especially when people talk, and and people listen, you know, because that’s when people you know, we need more of that so that people can say, hey, you know, maybe I should do that, or maybe I do need to look at that, or maybe, you know, you know, because that’s a huge, that’s a huge area of people who, who, who, you know, aren’t forced into recovery because of their addiction or, in despair or something happens or whatever, but still need still still have you know, you know, some form of spiritual disease where, you know, they’re just not fulfilled and life is just not what it could be. And, and that’s where, you know, I think that, there’s a lot of solutions out there. I think one of the best things that people we can do is let people know that there there is hope and there there are, available, therapies and and books and and professionals, you know, to help. But you gotta it’s up to the person. It’s up to the individual to to make that you know, that first step when they’re in that that that zone of, you know, not being a a a full addict or alcoholic and, you know, not necessarily being happy.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:30:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I I love the podcast format. Like, if I if it wasn’t for everybody else in my family, I’d never subscribed to Netflix HBO and all these other things. I I would just have, all I would need is YouTube and a podcast app, and I’d had every everything I need there. But, anyway, so, yeah, I really, you know, somebody looks at your book and said, oh, it’s a recovery book. You know, it it’s not just that. It’s way more than that. It’s, It it really is kind of like, you know, you walk by one of these apartments and see in the window and the kitchen has lit up and you see the family and you’re like, and you wonder, like, what’s going on in there? Who are those people? And It kinda and I also saw it in my head as I was reading, as a movie, like, you know, like, when I walked by the TV, my wife saw it caught up in in a movie about these people living their lives and just the the stories and their characters are incredibly, like, you just get to know the people. And then when it’s over, like, I I we just finished a a series. Like, a 1 season series, and I don’t know if they’re gonna make any more of them. And at the end of it, I felt kinda sad. I still think that, like, wow. I wish I could be back in that that world and with those people again. And I’ve kinda feel like that finishing your book, like, I kinda miss all those all those people. You know, I almost wish it was like an ongoing thing, like, an ongoing series. Like, what happens next to them? Yeah. It really felt like I was in a, like, I was watching the television show as I was reading it. Yeah. So, yeah, I —

Michael Eon [00:32:00]:

70s in the 90s, there definitely is room for for, another, another book a follow-up. You know?

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:32:09]:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That and, yeah, and just that that, you know, life in Brooklyn, life in New York is fascinating and how how it’s different from, you know, like, I’m in South Florida and, like, everything is so spread out. Like, you can’t go anywhere without getting in a car. You know, there’s no good public transportation and everything is also far away and spread out. And, it’s like a whole different life, like, where you’re in the neighborhood and everything is all, like, in walking distance, sort of, You know, so it’s and everything’s kinda old and it’s been there forever. And, you know, you know, so, yeah, it’s a it’s really it’s a great book, but it is also like, a great book for someone who wants who does wanna learn about recovery and not just by going to a meeting or opening up a book. And, you know, it’s is a great story that that kinda gradually gently introduces a lot of important things. And and it doesn’t jump right in and say recovery is great. You know, everything is great. You know, it it does question things. You do. In fact, I wasn’t even sure. And a lot of at a lot of points, like, you know, if I were to To if I were to to stop the book, like, partway through and talk to you, I might think, like, maybe you don’t like the 12 steps or AA, you know, maybe you’re, like, anti recovery. I’m not really sure. So you really do have to, like, get into the whole story and see it from all different points of view.

Michael Eon [00:33:24]:

Yeah. Because, I mean, you know, the different characters you know, have different viewpoints, you know, and that’s what, that’s what, is great is that over, over time, and over these these damage person relationships, you know, things evolve, and the thinking of, of the main character in particular evolves. And, And so, yeah, it it it, it’s kind of showing, you know, all the different angles, all of the different, opinions or perceptions or sides of of the whole situation. And, you know, and and being in the Brooklyn setting, you know, and especially in the seventies where it flat half the book takes place, you know, a lot going on in in in New York City in the seventies. And I tried to weave a lot of that in there and, you know, you know, so you get you have you have trauma inside the home, and then you also have trauma outside the home in terms of the son of Sam and everything else going on. And but yet, like you said, the neighborhood is like one family. It’s like a family. It’s like a living organism and entity. And, and so there’s there’s you know, there’s a lot of great and there’s, you know, a lot of, conflict and challenge, and it obviously makes for a good story.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:34:41]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think addiction is per per evasive. Like, even if someone isn’t whole, you know, you might not be holding a bottle in your hand or a bag of heroin or or fentanyl or whatever, but, you know, maybe someone’s, like, looking at their phone, like, oh, let me see how many legs I got on Instagram this morning or, you know, or whatever. I mean, you know, pack of cigarettes. I mean, the addiction is everywhere. So, you know, I think we all we all could use to to hear this story and to read the story.

Michael Eon [00:35:08]:

Exactly. It is everywhere. I mean, any any there’s so many things that light up that pleasure center in the brain, today. And so easy to get, to get, hooked on things that it doesn’t it doesn’t need to come from, you know, a psychoactive substance or or alcohol. You know, it, it’s everywhere, like you said, and, I mean, can be work, can be shopping, can be, you know, not just the the typical things. Can be social media, phones, you know,

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:35:41]:

Yeah. Kids playing video games and buying stuff in the game and whatever, and Yeah. They have they have psychologists that are working hard to make sure those games are as addictive as possible.

Michael Eon [00:35:52]:

Yeah. It’s kind of this. It’s like an epidemic, really.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:35:56]:

Yeah. So, yeah, so what would be the best way? Is this book available for pre order?

Michael Eon [00:36:02]:

Available for pre order on, wherever you buy books, Amazon, obviously, on Barnes And Noble. Bookshop.org. It’s, it’s everywhere. It’s, coming out on the 19th. And, Yeah.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:36:18]:

Okay. And and do you have a do you have a website that people can visit to go directly? I

Michael Eon [00:36:22]:

do. I do. It’s located at michaeleonauthor.com.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:36:33]:

Okay. Great. Great. And, yeah, I recommend everyone go go visit and definitely pre order the book, and and read it. Yeah. I I just love this book. It was really great. I I hope it does turn into a TV show or a movie. Because that that would be great. And is there gonna be an audio book also?

Michael Eon [00:36:48]:

It will be an audio book. Audio book, ebook, paperback. Yep.

Mark Leeds, D.O. [00:36:52]:

Yeah. This this would work great as an audiobook in the car. Just listening to a little bit every day. So, yeah, Michael, Eon, thank thank you again for joining me today.

Michael Eon [00:37:00]:

Thank you, Dr. Leeds. It’s been a pleasure.