What is the Florida Shuffle?
In December 2018, I spoke with Michael A., who had written an article about going through more than two dozen rehab stays over six years before he finally found something that worked. The phrase that stayed with me from his article was the Florida Shuffle.
At 1:12, he explained it. People are sent to Florida from all over the country, and many of them cycle from detox to a short program to sober living, use again, and start over. Meanwhile, each pass through the system is billed to someone.
This is an archive episode, recorded when the show covered addiction and recovery broadly. It is still one of the clearest first-person accounts I have heard of what a revolving door looks like from the inside.
Are some programs set up for people to fail?
At 2:43, I described visiting a sober living home in South Florida that was considered one of the better ones. It was a rundown house, and when I mentioned that my own practice used medication for opioid use disorder, one of the administrators told me flatly that they did not believe in it.
Michael agreed that many programs were built around relapse. In his account at 4:19, the business made more money each time someone came back, which is how much of the fraud in Florida began. Fortunately, by the time we spoke, a number of those places had been shut down.
What was missing from the programs that did not help?
From 5:12, he described what he found again and again: the same generic relapse plans, a packet of reading, and the instruction to go and heal. Everybody is different, he said, and everybody started using for different reasons, so care has to be individual.
He also made a point about time. In a stay of about a month, a therapist barely has the chance to understand a person, let alone help them change how they think.
What is cognitive behavioral therapy, and how can it help?
At 7:46, Michael explained cognitive behavioral therapy, or CBT, as learning to notice your own thoughts and test them against reality. I asked about a patient who did well for a month or two and then grew bored with her life. He said CBT can help with exactly that, but that lasting change also took a new way of living.
At 10:11, I said something I have long believed. The resourcefulness people show while they are using is remarkable, and the same intelligence and creativity can be redirected toward school, work, fitness, and art. Michael called that drive an advantage, once it is pointed somewhere better.
Does the language people use about themselves matter?
At 12:06, I asked about labels. In many of the programs Michael attended, people had to introduce themselves with a label for their condition every time they spoke, even a week into recovery.
In his view, at 12:50, repeating that label every day kept the problem alive in his own head. He understands that his brain could go back to that state, yet he does not need to define himself by it for the rest of his life.
We agreed that there is no single path to recovery. Social connection matters for almost everyone, he said at 16:18, because isolation is a killer.
Why does the length of care matter so much?
At 17:31, I said that one of the most important things in recovery is time. The longer a person stays off opioids, the more the brain has a chance to heal and the more the cravings fade. That is true with medication, and it is true without it.
Michael described what finally worked for him at 20:58: a long-term residential program in California built around hard physical activity, teamwork, and several therapy sessions a week, including writing therapy. In fact, he credits the team he trained with for the closest friendships of his life.
Can physical activity help the brain recover?
At 24:54, I wondered whether all that running, rowing, and climbing helps the body’s own reward system recover, so that a person gets used to the natural reward of effort and accomplishment again. Michael said the physical work also eased his lingering withdrawal symptoms and showed him how much there was to enjoy in life.
He described the spiritual side as open, at 25:52. Yoga and meditation were there for anyone who wanted them, and he found more spiritual growth that way than in places that told him what he had to believe.
What should a good program include?
At 30:30, I mentioned the checklist in Dr. Adam Bisaga’s book, Overcoming Opioid Addiction, of what a treatment program should offer. Many programs do only the minimum required by law. So, I hoped that people who run programs would listen to Michael’s account and build something closer to what helped him.
Michael also said, at 33:02, that his creativity came back stronger once he was well. He had believed he was more creative while using. In fact, the opposite turned out to be true.
Who is Michael A.?
Michael A. is a digital artist and video producer who wrote about his years in and out of the Florida treatment system. He is credited here by his first name and last initial.
What can listeners take away from this conversation?
More of the same short program rarely produces a different result. Care that is individual, lasts long enough to matter, and connects a person to other people gives recovery a real chance.
How do I approach this today?
My thinking has kept developing since this conversation was recorded. Today my practice is built on one idea that runs through all of it: when the body has adapted to a substance, the safest way off is usually gradual, with the smallest steps the person’s nervous system can tolerate. Physical dependence is not addiction.
For opioid dependence I prescribe buprenorphine, which steadies the body so a person can rebuild their life without the cycle of withdrawal. Visits are monthly, or weekly when needed. Some people stay on it for a long time, and that is a legitimate choice. Others later taper slowly, using the same gradual approach I use for every other medication.
I believe medication for opioid dependence should be available wherever people need it. I prescribe in Florida only.
This page is educational. It is not medical advice, and listening to the episode or reading this page does not create a doctor-patient relationship. Decisions about starting, continuing, or tapering any medication should be made with your own physician.
Full transcript
A note from Dr. Leeds: my guests speak from their own experience and expertise, and the terminology they use is their own. Whatever the topic, this show holds to one distinction: physical dependence on a prescribed medication is not addiction. This transcript is educational content, not medical advice, and nothing here creates a doctor-patient relationship.
Read the full transcript (35 minutes)
Dr. Mark Leeds [00:09] Welcome to The Rehab on the Mental Health News Radio Network. I am Dr. Mark Leeds and I will be your host. Join me in exploring the world of addiction treatment. How can we improve the ways that we help individuals to overcome addiction? The goal of treatment is to save lives and help people to get back on track to a path towards success and happiness in life. So, I wanted to talk to you today about an article that you wrote, which I thought was excellent, and I really enjoyed reading it, and I think this is something that would be helpful to a lot of people to read and to learn more about this. And the article was titled Addicted to Rehab. Six years and 28 rehabs later, I now carry three years of abstinence and I’m at the point to finally describe my journey. And you talk about something called the Florida Shuffle. What is the Florida Shuffle?
Michael A. [01:12] The Florida Shuffle, what I discovered when I’m originally from Florida and I didn’t realize that this was going on down there until I got introduced to the rehab and addiction treatment industry. But what the Florida Shuffle was and still is going in and out of treatments over and over and over again. And, you know, a lot of people get sent down to Florida for addiction treatment from all over the country because of how many treatments there are down there and because of their marketing. You know, I experienced it firsthand and I’ve seen so many other people go through it where They just go down there and their family spends money. The insurance they have covers treatment or however it may be, and they end up going through treatment, staying down in Florida, not getting, you know, not really healing, depending upon different things. Different reasons may result in why they’re not healing. It could be the treatment. It could be the person’s willingness. But whatever the case may be, you just see people going in and out of rehab and basically living off of the rehab system, you know, not really functioning in life, not functioning in society as a productive member, but just somebody that’s going from detox to rehab to sober living, relapse back again. And it’s that shuffle of just shifting around rehab and sober living.
Dr. Mark Leeds [02:43] I’ve had the opportunity to meet some people in that business in the last couple of years. I visited a sober living home, and it’s considered to be one of the better ones in the area. And it wasn’t what I expected. I always expect places like that to kind of look like medical facilities, you know, maybe like a hospital or that kind of a thing. And, you know, I showed up there. It was kind of a rundown looking house. And, you know, the people were kind of hanging out in the front yard and inside. But when I went in and when I met with the owners and the administrators, they were very serious about what they were doing. You know, they felt very strongly about what they were doing and felt that it was a successful treatment model. I guess people end up there while they’re in treatment or after they finish treatment. I have a small practice where we treat people using medication to treat them for opioid addiction. And I mentioned that, and one of the administrators right away, you know, snapped back at me, and he felt very strongly against it. He said, we do not believe in using medications such as suboxone to treat addiction. He said, maybe at best it can be used for a couple weeks, but that’s not the way that we treat addiction. Which I don’t agree with, of course, because that’s what I do. And it is a proven method of treating addiction, at least for a period of time. It did seem like there was something unusual going on in the system where people may be actually even set up to fail. They go to a short period of treatment and not going to a hospital like facility, but going to a place that might be in a shopping, a strip shopping mall, you know, a place with no sign on the window and people are kind of shuffling in and out. And, you know, they go through these programs and they a lot of people relapse and they cycle back through the system of detox. You know, you get medication for a short time, they get sent to a day program and then a shorter day program. It just doesn’t seem like it’s set up for people to succeed.
Michael A. [04:19] Sure. Yeah, I absolutely agree that the way the majority of these places are set up is banking on people failing. It’s unfortunate. It’s truly unfortunate. And it’s killing so many people. Places make more money on people failing and that’s where a lot of the fraud came into play down in Florida there’s you know a lot of places have been shut down over the past few years which which is amazing to see actions being taken that was the original setup you know it’s the more relapse that occurs the higher they could build the insurance and what I found is a lot of these places that are set up in low-income areas, the majority of them aren’t providing what I refer to as true therapy or real therapy and healing. And, you know, for a while, I had no idea what that looked like, what real therapy could be. You know, I just knew I needed something more. And what I was finding at all these places was very generic cookie cutter relapse prevention plans and AA and it was all AA and avoid people places and things and quote AA and here’s a book here’s a packet you know now it’s on you go heal and that doesn’t work for a lot of people there’s so much more complexities to healing from addictions and just these cookie cutter routines. Everybody is different. Everybody has a different makeup. Everybody started using based on different variables in their life. And the approach needs to be more individual, you know, and based on an individual needs. And a lot of these places are also very short term treatment so the therapists there aren’t getting to fully understand each person you know 30 days of treatment is not enough for a client therapist bond to really take place to establish what that individual needs to heal and you know what distorted thinking do they have going on that can be trained to change, you know? Like, what happened in their past that leads them to get these emotions when this situation arises, and how do you teach them to become aware of that? You know, that stuff just wasn’t happening in these programs. That’s hard work, you know? These places didn’t seem to care to put in that hard work.
Dr. Mark Leeds [07:08] It really seems like treatment that’s done here in South Florida, from what I’ve seen, a lot of it is very much business motivated and they’re not doing everything that needs to be done. Now in your article, you did list some things that you did finally find a really good treatment program and you list some of the things that you felt were really positive there. I noticed you wrote here, not normal groups on addiction, really in-depth studying of what happens to the brain during drug and alcohol use. How to rewire through CBT, DBT, and exercise. CBT and DBT, are those a form of therapy?
Michael A. [07:46] Yeah, CBT is like cognitive behavioral therapy. So there’s different techniques involved in it, but it’s beyond the typical Freudian style of therapy that’s more common in treatment, which is like this happened in your past, which must have led to this. You know, I think a mixture of all therapies is key, but CBT really focuses on being in control of your thoughts and being self-aware of your thoughts and really raising your emotional IQ through different techniques and exercises is that, you know, reality testing and processing your thoughts.
Dr. Mark Leeds [08:37] So just for example, you know, I had a patient that was talking about how she does really well for a month or two and, you know, stays clean and then just starts getting bored with her life, and just those thoughts come up and, you know, but just that issue of, you know, being clean for a while and then those thoughts start to creep back and that feeling of boredom. Is that something that CBT might help with, like help someone to deal with those thoughts when they come up of not acting on them?
Michael A. [09:04] Yeah, 100% that can help. I think it’s important to add in much more than just that. I think a crucial ingredient to the recipe of success is also just changing lifestyles. And that can look differently. But when I finally got sober this time, I was taught to really use this addictive predisposition that I have for greatness. You know, like what people have to overcome addiction is a gift. And to understand that as something that’s powerful and to take advantage of that, there’s so much we can do. And by following that, you know, it gives us, like, motivation to go back to school or find a new career path or live a healthy lifestyle and get involved in some fitness that we’ve never been involved in. And, you know, just changing that shifting of thinking is an example of CBT and how that can help in a way.
Dr. Mark Leeds [10:11] So rechanneling your energy and your abilities. And that’s one thing I’ve noticed that people, someone who’s in active addiction, really they’re acting on a genius level. I mean, just you can’t hide drugs from an addict. I mean, if you’re in the house of someone and you go try to hide the drugs, I mean, they’ll become like the most brilliant, genius person and just instantly kind of reason through. I know he didn’t hide them here, here and here. And you’ll just go right for wherever that hiding place is. And then the ways you put money together and the way you put all your resources together to get a hold of the drug and use the drug and keep it a secret. I mean, it’s unbelievable the abilities that a person who’s predisposed to addiction has. And I also find that there’s a lot of people who have an unbelievable level of intelligence and creativity. I think those people are more predisposed to becoming addicted. And if they can just stay clean, you know, those abilities can be refocused, redirected into like really incredibly positive outcomes.
Michael A. [11:10] Absolutely. Yeah, it’s an advantage to have that drive. You know, if somebody were to have that drive in times where there were no drugs or substances around, you know, that person would be building the biggest house or finding and collecting the most fruit and food and, you know, surviving the strongest because they have that drive. But it’s when drugs are introduced into the equation, it’s signaling to our brain that this is good. This is good for survival and tricking our brain. And when we can step away from that and become super clear that’s not true, you know, it’s not good for survival, but we can use this drive for better, you know, it’s really motivating and encouraging. To really embrace the way our minds work.
Dr. Mark Leeds [12:06] What do you think about negative influences from people around someone who’s trying to get better? And you might think, sometimes you think that the people who are positive influences are not. I mean, for even family, even close family members, you know, they seem to want to help and they want to put you in treatment and, you know, tell you what you should do and what you shouldn’t do. And, you know, friends and spouses, and sometimes they don’t realize what is really best for you. Maybe it’s changing careers or moving on, and maybe it’s not going to a meeting every day where you have to identify yourself as an addict or alcoholic. And I think you mentioned that may actually be a negative thing of repeatedly, on a regular daily basis, putting yourself down by identifying as being an addict or alcoholic.
Michael A. [12:50] Yeah, I think each person has their own individual circumstance. So figuring out what negative influences shouldn’t be in your life is dependent upon their situation. So that would be between them and their professional therapist or help. Also, be smart about it, of course. You know, if you have to question it, maybe avoid it, at least in the beginning, at least until someone really feels their brain has rewired back into not craving drugs and not being easily triggered. But once somebody heals and overcomes that, I believe we can get to a point where none of that stuff can affect somebody once they’re strong and focused on what they want. And about the language that’s used in the rooms, you know. You hear people say, in a lot of the treatments I went to, you had to announce yourself that way before you spoke in group as well. So, you know, you have a week clean, and you’re identifying yourself as an addict or alcoholic, and it’s just reinforcing what you’re trying to overcome, you know, and you’re labeling yourself as a disease or illness or whatever you want to call it. You’re labeling yourself as that, and you’re keeping it alive. And I think 100% that’s negative. And I know the reasoning behind it isn’t supposed to be negative, but I think it does impact our brain, you know, our words and the words of other people around us. Can impact our thinking and especially the way we talk to ourselves that you know reflects on the way we think to ourselves and I think getting away from that language is important to not not living as an affliction it just seems counterintuitive from my experience getting away from that has has helped me completely separate from something that I went through that I’ve overcame. You know, I overcame it and I worked really hard to do so. I don’t, I overcame it and I worked really hard to do so. And I’m grateful for that experience and I’ll never forget it. But I don’t want to continue calling myself a disease for the rest of my life. That doesn’t negate that I can’t go back to that state. I understand that my brain is capable of falling back in the state if I choose to start ingesting drugs and alcohol again. But I don’t need to constantly call myself that as a reminder. I know that. And I’m above that. And I’m faster.
Dr. Mark Leeds [15:49] For some people, for a lot of people, 12-step recovery does work really well. I mean, some people, they pick up their one chip or their key tag and they stay clean for years. And then some people struggle a little bit in the beginning and then it catches on and they find that’s the best thing for them, but that’s for those people. And then there’s also people that just, it just never seems to really work for them. And, you know, so there’s not just one single path to recovering and staying clean. I mean, there’s many different ways to do it. And one way is not going to work for everybody.
Michael A. [16:18] Yeah, I totally agree. You know, I have friends that have had success in the rooms of AA or NA or whatever it may be. The majority of the people I surround myself with didn’t get sober through the rooms they got sober through other means more closely similar to the way I overcame addiction but I yeah I do see that works and I think whatever works for somebody 100 do it if it feels right you know this is such a deadly epidemic that people need to overcome it whatever means necessary. I think AA has a lot of benefits with the social connection piece. I think that as a whole is crucial for overcoming addiction, especially with how apparent isolation is for people who fall into addiction. I mean, isolation is a killer. And becoming socially connected back into the world and having friends, it really is a game changer for a lot of people.
Dr. Mark Leeds [17:31] One thing I see with the program you describe as being a more ideal program, that a program should last more than 90 days. That makes a lot of sense to me. And that’s also something with the use of medication that it’s recommended that a person who’s treated with medication for addiction stick with the treatment for at least six months because that gets them out of that danger period. And it would be the same even without the use of medication for treatment, that if a person is going to go to a program that provides, you know, all these different forms of therapy and everything else, that it should be long term because it takes a lot longer for a person to, you know, I think, I personally think one of the most important things in treating addiction is time. And there’s nothing that really can replace that of just having, you know, the more time a person is clean, the more likely they can stay clean and the more their brain has a chance to heal and recover and start functioning normally. And the cravings and thoughts will subside naturally over time. Definitely more than 90 days sounds ideal, maybe even six months if that’s possible. I just don’t know if that’s reasonable for people to be able to afford or get covered with their insurance companies.
Michael A. [18:34] Yeah, I completely agree. The longer time spent in treatment, the greater success seems to be. I don’t know much about how that coverage works. I know there are places out there that are longer term, and like Treehouse Recovery, for example, when they take somebody in, it’s a five-month program. If somebody’s insurance cuts out in the first month they’re keeping that person until they’re done with the program you know and it’s very respectable to see programs do that and focus on healing yeah some of the benefits of long term exactly what you’re talking about being able to spend for one you’re just spending that much time away from your old environment and away from the drugs. So of course, naturally things are going to happen, but you’re also going to have three to five months or whatever time spent. You’re going to have that much time with professionals practicing new ways of thinking, new ways of living life. You’re able to create new routines and you have so much time to implement these routines. You have so much time to practice these new ways of thinking with a professional who’s going to help encourage it and give you new advice. And once you master like one level of managing these thoughts, they can introduce more stuff and you just have the time available to do that. You know, it’s hard for some people to step away from family or from work for that much time. Initially, it may seem that way, but It’s either step away now for a few months and really address something that has negatively impacted someone’s life or go in and out of misery. People can find the time to really focus.
Dr. Mark Leeds [20:40] Yeah, I agree that if a person is willing to and is able to take time away from their regular life, that sounds ideal. Now, you went to a program called Treehouse Recovery, finally, in California, and that’s where you finally found success. I mean, tell me a little bit more about what they do at Treehouse Recovery.
Michael A. [20:58] Yeah, sure. So Treehouse Recovery is a physical and clinical approach to treating addiction. So it’s very holistic in nature. It was created in part with a Navy SEAL. One of the standout features of the program is something called action-based induction therapy, where we would get on boats three mornings a week out in the ocean, and they’re like blue rafts, like the same ones that the Navy SEALs use in training, and we would paddle out through the waves, and then we would turn it around and try and surf waves, and everybody’s in the moment, everybody’s having fun, everybody’s overcoming fears, everybody has to communicate you know and surface level it seems like just this fun thing to do with friends but you know really what it is engaging the prefrontal cortex which is your your logic part of the brain and your connection part of the brain your human connector so it’s forcing that part of the brain to grow and that part of the brain is the part of the brain that it really quiets down during addiction. So the wiring and the connection to that part of the brain is really muted. So increasing that is a huge part of the program. Other than that, they’re working out five days a week in the gym. And, yeah, it’s meant to heal the body, but there’s a huge mental component to the physical side as well, which is, you know, the mind and body are connected. And by becoming physically healthy, you’re becoming mentally stronger. You’re learning how to push your limits. It also just relieves the symptoms of PAWS, post-acute withdrawal symptoms, a lot quicker. Then we have this thing called recovery in action, which is going out and doing like mud runs and races or camping once a month and that helps introduce like what else there is out there in life you know when I was in addiction I had no idea that people were coming out running through mud for five miles and being introduced to things like that just shows like how much fun I could have in life and what being part of a healthy group feels like, you know, being surrounded by all these, like, healthy, active people was something that I never felt part of, and finally, like, I felt part of this culture. Other than the physical side, we talked a little bit about the clinical side, all right, but it’s really focused on explaining the science behind addiction, you know, like, They talk a lot about what’s really happening in the brain, you know, why we get certain feelings in certain situations that don’t make sense, that make us want to use. It’s because the limbic system or the amygdala is storing these emotions that come out in certain scenarios, you know, and it creates this awareness around why we act the way we did and how we can change it. We had four therapy sessions a week, which was much more extensive than any other treatment. And, you know, it’s like motivational interviewing style mixed with writing therapy. Two of them a week would be writing therapy, which is good for overcoming traumas and expressing feelings that most men have trouble doing.
Dr. Mark Leeds [24:54] Yeah, it sounds like an incredible program. So the thing with the highly physical nature of the program, that seems ideal, especially for someone who’s going through recovering from an opioid addiction to maybe reset that opioid receptor system that’s really meant for endogenous opioid type molecules like endorphins. You know, when a person is running and, you know, running through mud and climbing and rowing and doing all these physical things, you know, maybe that really helps to kind of reset the body to where it’s naturally supposed to be and using these opioid receptors the way they were meant physically to be used rather than, you know, people taking pills and injecting heroin and stuff like that. You know, now you kind of get used to that natural high of accomplishment and doing something physical every day. And, you know, that seems like a really positive aspect to the program. I was wondering also, was there any kind of a spiritual component? I mean, I know it doesn’t sound like a 12-step program, but was there still any kind of engagement of the spiritual centers or spiritual nature of the mind?
Michael A. [25:52] Yeah, absolutely. We have yoga three times a week in the program. That was where a lot of the meditation and reflection and restoring the body came in. It was very open-ended in a sense that if you wanted spiritual healing, you could find it in that. For the people who were kind of iffy about the spiritual side, it was really heavy in establishing that mind-body connection and establishing calmness. So the spiritual aspect is absolutely there for the people who wanted it. However it wasn’t pushed as heavy as you know you would find in AA it was it was more open-ended which was really refreshing yeah I found more growth in my spiritual being with that approach than I did in places that were kind of like saying you need a higher power and kind of forcing me to feel like I needed it as opposed to it being up to me
Dr. Mark Leeds [26:57] When you finished with the program did you keep up with or did you keep in contact with people that you went through the program with was there like a support system when you came out
Michael A. [27:06] Yeah I’m actually really glad you asked that so through the 27 rehabs I went through in Florida I maybe stay in touch with two people I’ve met through that whole time and by stay in touch I mean like we’ll message each other on Facebook every once in a while the team so when you go through Treehouse you get put on a team There’s three teams there. And to this day, my best friends in my life are three of the people that I went through Treehouse with on that team. I still communicate with every single person I went through Treehouse with. I see these people a few times a week. You know, we work out together. We still do runs together. Two of us are in school together. And yeah it’s incredible it’s there’s something really special about getting physical there’s something really special about doing like intense physical activity and doing groups together that create vulnerabilities with other men it was you know something that I never experienced I was kind of shut off to relationships with other men and treehouse really like changed that idea for me and yeah I have I have best friends today these relationships are like I never really saw friendships being this way it’s almost hard to explain because it’s not the norm yeah it’s incredible it’s incredible to have so many good friends around me you know and after the program, I stayed in California and so did some of my teammates. And we ended up moving in together for a while and living together and just supporting each other and motivating each other. And the culture is a really different experience as well. Everybody gets this, like, bug to want to be healthy and proactive in life and be this, like, superhuman person. And not in like an obnoxious way, but in a kind of beautiful and amazing way. And you feed off of each other by doing that, and it creates like healthy competitions, and everyone’s just feeling healthy and strong and encouraging each other, and it’s hard not to get caught up in that when all your friends are doing that.
Dr. Mark Leeds [29:38] Does the program offer an opportunity for past graduates to come back and do service to help out with the current residents to maybe kind of do activities alongside with them or give talks or that sort of thing?
Michael A. [29:50] Yeah, the graduates stay connected. Treehouse will invite graduates to continue doing races with the guys, and we’ll see a lot of graduates show up and go on these races. A lot of graduates end up staying so close to Treehouse and getting hired on as staff and end up supporting them to go to school, and these guys will get certifications and come back and be therapists, yoga therapists, physical empowerment therapists. It’s pretty incredible how much everyone stays connected.
Dr. Mark Leeds [30:23] Is it only a program for men or do they also have a separate program for women?
Michael A. [30:27] Yeah, it’s a male-only facility.
Dr. Mark Leeds [30:30] I think it’s great that we’re talking about it, and we didn’t intend for this to be in any way an advertisement for Treehouse Recovery, Although I think it is important to promote and discuss and to point out those programs that have gone above and beyond to do a really good job of providing this sort of care, care for more than just a month and to do more than just build an insurance company and, you know, do little groups. And, you know, a lot of the programs, I think, are just doing the absolute minimum that they have to do by law. And Treehouse Recovery, it sounds like they’ve gone, you know, well above and beyond in providing an incredible environment of physical activity and, you know, teamwork, team building, as you describe it, and going into the science of the brain and different kinds of therapy, which really should be done. In fact, in a book that I had the privilege to interview the author of the book, Overcoming Opioid Addiction, there’s a section near the end of the book where Dr. Bisaga, the author, he gives a two-page chart listing all the things that a treatment program should include. And I’d have to look back at it, but I believe CBT and DBT therapy were included in that list, along with other forms of therapy. It looks like just reading through the list in your article that the program meets a lot of these requirements. And I know that many programs do not meet even the most basic requirements that he lists and what people should look for in a program. And so this is something that if people listening to this program in the future, people who maybe run treatment programs, people who are doctors or in the addiction treatment field, they might consider trying to model some of these things in their programs or maybe even start brand new programs kind of based on this format.
Michael A. [32:03] Yeah, that’s incredible. And yeah, I definitely agree. Treehouse Recovery is the only one I went through and experienced personally. So it’s the only one I could recommend and share about. But, you know, I know there has to be other places that are evolving as well. Yeah, I think the list you’re talking about is it sounds really on point with what real therapy can be and what, you know, true healing can happen. And the brain can be healed and overcome that addicted state. And if anyone needs an idea of what programs like that could look like, Treehouse Recovery is a great example. Of course, do research and look into what else there is. But yeah, it’s a good starting point to get an idea.
Dr. Mark Leeds [32:57] At Treehouse Recovery, did they have any kind of an art program like art therapy or music?
Michael A. [33:02] You mentioned this earlier, it is really common to see creative people struggle with addiction. So at Treehouse, and I’m sure at most other treatment centers, you find a lot of people that are playing music in their free time and drawing. And, you know, of course, Treehouse supports using these outlets and, you know, doing what you love. And it’s amazing to see. I’m a digital artist. I did video production before coming into Treehouse, and it was just amazing to see. I thought I was so good when I was high. I thought I was so creative. And after healing these faulty parts of my brain, my ability to create art was just 10 times better. And it just re-sparked that passion to go out and do art. And I think that’s a common thing to see as well.
Dr. Mark Leeds [33:59] Thank you for joining me today in the program on The Rehab, and I really appreciate it. There’s a lot of really good material in here and things that are going to be really helpful for people who are looking for help to get clean and also for their family members and loved ones who are looking to help them. So thank you.
Michael A. [34:14] Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Mark Leeds [34:20] Thank you for joining us today on The Rehab on the Mental Health News Radio Network. I hope that you have found this show to be interesting and useful. If so, please subscribe to the Rehab Podcast and share on social media. I appreciate your taking the time to listen to the Rehab. Thank you.
