What does it look like to recover out loud?
In October 2022, I spoke with Dedee Pfeiffer, an actress who was starring as Denise on the television series Big Sky. She stepped away from acting for about ten years to study psychology and social work, and during those years she faced her own alcohol dependence.
This is an archive episode, recorded when the show covered addiction and recovery broadly. Dedee describes her own path in her own words, and her view throughout is that no two people recover the same way.
How did going back to school change her life?
At 1:34, Dedee explained that she walked into a community college with no plan except a wish to help people. She was a single mother with two children, she had never worked on a computer, and she found out along the way that she had a learning disability. Once it was accommodated, she discovered she was far more capable than she had believed since grade school.
In her ninth year of college, her drinking finally caught up with her. Still, she finished her last year in the social work program at UCLA while starting work on Big Sky and learning to live sober.
Why are some people more vulnerable to alcohol dependence?
At 4:03, Dedee traced her drinking back to childhood. Her father drank heavily while holding down his life, and sips from his beer felt to her like love and attention. In her view, the seeds were planted early, and undiagnosed trauma added to it. She said trauma and substance use often travel together, yet they are separate problems that need separate care.
At 5:50, I shared a theory of mine. Many people try alcohol or drugs and put them down, but I believe some of those who have the hardest time stopping are intelligent, highly creative people. Dedee agreed there is truth in that. In fact, she said at 6:51 that artists have to stay open to strong feelings to do their work, and that same openness can leave them more vulnerable.
What was her own path into recovery?
At 11:09, Dedee described the day her family asked her to accept help. To their surprise, she said yes. She had been riddled with shame and did not know how to ask, and she went into a residential program two days later.
From 15:00, she talked about the mutual support group she used. She is not religious, so she crossed out the word God in the book and wrote Mother Earth in its place. Her advice was to make recovery your own, and if one group feels wrong, to find another that fits.
Is stopping all at once the only way?
At 18:01, I asked whether she knew about the Sinclair Method, in which people take naltrexone and gradually drink less over time. Dedee said that what she learned at UCLA about harm reduction was the opposite of how she herself got sober.
Interestingly, her fieldwork changed her thinking. At 18:20, she explained that when a person is living on the street with untreated trauma, asking them to quit everything at once is very hard. In her view, gradual steps can work better for some people, and she supports whatever helps a person move forward.
Does the training of the people who help really matter?
At 23:05, I raised a concern about programs where much of the staff has only a short certificate. I said that people with more education in psychology and in how the brain works tend to be less confrontational and more open to different paths.
Dedee answered at 24:23 from one of her internships in homelessness outreach. She described small outreach teams that combine a specialist in substance use, a mental health specialist, a peer advocate, and a social work intern. So, each person they meet can connect with whoever fits them best.
Where does psychiatric medication fit?
At 27:09, I asked about recent news questioning whether many psychiatric medications help people over the long term. Dedee said she believes some drugs are misprescribed, and she worries about assessments that only check boxes on the way to a prescription.
She was candid about her own experience at 27:55. An antidepressant gave her a floor so she did not bottom out, which let her build other skills for her anxiety. However, she sees medication as one part of care, used carefully, alongside breathing, mindfulness, and learning her own triggers.
How can mindfulness become a habit that works?
At 31:59, Dedee described dialectical behavior therapy, or DBT, as an active therapy built around doing things, not only talking. She always told the people she worked with to take part in their own treatment plan and to keep asking questions.
At 33:26, I admitted that when someone tells me to be mindful, I notice a squirrel on a tree and my breathing, and five minutes later I am back to running around. Her answer was practical. Because her own inner voice can be harsher than anyone else, she tries to get out of her own way by standing up, doing the laundry, texting a friend, or watching octopuses change shape. Then she looks at the thought itself and asks where the evidence is.
How do you stop punishing yourself for the past?
At 48:10, Dedee talked about the guilt of years lost to drinking. She stops herself by remembering what a mentor from her early recovery would say: there is no healing back there. The healing starts in the present.
Fortunately, she found a gentler idea than being told to love yourself overnight. She called it baby likes. Each day you notice one small thing you like about yourself, such as not drinking that day, holding your tongue, or helping someone else. In her view, going straight from self-loathing to self-love is the same all-or-nothing thinking people are told to avoid.
Can a television character change how people see sobriety?
At 56:36, Dedee explained that her character on Big Sky is also sober. The show treats it as simply part of who Denise is, not a storyline. Of course, she hopes that helps people see sober people as approachable, funny, and full of life.
Who is Dedee Pfeiffer?
Dedee Pfeiffer is an actress who plays Denise on Big Sky. She holds a bachelor’s degree in psychology from California State University, Northridge, and a master’s degree in social work from UCLA, with a focus on mental health, substance use, and homelessness. She speaks publicly about recovery and mental health through her interviews and social media.
What can listeners take away from this conversation?
Recovery does not have to follow a single script. Dedee found what worked for her by adapting the tools she was given, staying curious, and treating herself more kindly one small step at a time. Her message is that people who are struggling deserve care that fits them, not a label.
How do I approach this today?
My thinking has kept developing since this conversation was recorded. Today my practice is built on one idea that runs through all of it: when the body has adapted to a substance, the safest way off is usually gradual, with the smallest steps the person’s nervous system can tolerate. Physical dependence is not addiction.
For alcohol dependence I use the Sinclair Method. The person takes naltrexone about an hour before drinking, and over time the drinking itself becomes less rewarding, so the urge fades gradually instead of being fought every day. It does not require stopping on day one, and it does not rely on willpower or meetings.
Like a slow taper, it lets the brain change at its own pace. For many people that makes it a more humane path than a sudden stop, which can also be medically dangerous for someone whose body depends on alcohol.
Call 911 or go to an emergency department if there is a seizure, confusion or hallucinations, or thoughts of self-harm. For thoughts of suicide or any mental health crisis, you can also call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
This page is educational. It is not medical advice, and listening to the episode or reading this page does not create a doctor-patient relationship. Decisions about starting, continuing, or tapering any medication should be made with your own physician.
Full transcript
A note from Dr. Leeds: my guests speak from their own experience and expertise, and the terminology they use is their own. Whatever the topic, this show holds to one distinction: physical dependence on a prescribed medication is not addiction. This transcript is educational content, not medical advice, and nothing here creates a doctor-patient relationship.
Read the full transcript (60 minutes)
Dr. Mark Leeds [00:00] Thank you for joining me on the Mental Health News Radio Network. I am Dr. Mark Leeds. I am an osteopathic physician and your host of the Rehab Podcast. Our guest is Dedee Pfeiffer, television and film star, who currently stars as Denise on ABC’s Big Sky, which is now in Season 3. Dedee took time away from acting to go back to school to earn her bachelor’s degree in psychology and a master’s of social work with a concentration in mental health and addiction and homelessness. She also took time to confront her own issues with alcohol addiction. In addition to working hard as a professional actress, Dedee also serves the recovery community as an activist and advocate of helping people to overcome addiction and enter a life of recovery and sobriety. So let’s join the interview now with Dedee Pfeiffer. Dedee Pfeiffer, welcome to the podcast.
Dedee Pfeiffer [00:57] Well, thank you, Mark, for having me.
Dr. Mark Leeds [01:00] Yeah, thank you for joining me. So, Dedee Pfeiffer, you are a professional actress. You’re a television and movie star. You’ve been in the acting business for a long time. And I was reading that you took about 10 years off, and you went back to school. You went back to college, and I think back for a master’s degree. Tell me a little bit about that. Like what, you know, because I’m sure when you took 10 years off, you probably weren’t thinking I’ll take 10 years off and come back again. Like what led to that decision? Why did you decide to leave work and go back to school?
Dedee Pfeiffer [01:34] Wow, Mark, what a great question. And you’re right on. I never meant to take 10 years off because I didn’t know what I was doing. And I love when people say go back to school. I graduated in 1982. 82. So if I’m 58, so if you do the math, when I graduated, I went right into the work field because that’s what you did back then. So I was very fortunate to have worked as an actor and producer and what have you. And then about 13 years ago, I decided that I kind of came to a place in my life and my career as a single mother as well, and someone with an addiction that was not being acknowledged because that’s high functioning alcoholic, that I decided I wanted to take a break so I could help people. So I thought I would go to up to literally walked up to a community college and was like, Hey, I want to get a degree and help people. And they were like, well, what do you want to do, ma’am? I go, I don’t know. I just want to help people. So I had not a clue of what I was doing. So they said, well, how about a psych degree? I said, okay, that sounds good. So I started this academic journey, not knowing anything. I’d never worked on a computer, never done. I barely, barely graduated in 82, you know? So needless to say, prerequisites were a must. So, and I had two kids in tow, like I said, a single mom. So I had to make sure that they were provided for first, meaning Taekwondo school, all that. So I tried to squeak in my education in between that. But it was an amazing 10 year journey. I discovered I had a learning disability that was accommodated for. And then all of a sudden my academic journey went from me thinking I was stupid in grade school to actually I discovered I’m quite right. I just needed help. I needed extra help. And within that journey, something more profound happened. My ninth year in college, my alcoholism finally caught up with me and kneecapped me. And I went to rehab and I started my journey four years ago with my recovery for alcoholism. And then I finished my last year at UCLA as a social worker and started the pilot of Big Sky at the same time while discovering my sober legs. And now I’m recovering out loud and really excited to be on your show to talk about it.
Dr. Mark Leeds [03:45] Oh, that’s great. So currently right now you’re sober for about four years or is it exactly four years?
Dedee Pfeiffer [03:51] Yep. At the end of July, that was my four year sober birthday.
Dr. Mark Leeds [03:54] Yeah. Oh, that’s great. So like before, so before that, like, did you, had you been drinking all along, like from when you were a teenager or did you start later in life?
Dedee Pfeiffer [04:03] Oh yeah I mean well my father I learned from the best my father’s in the high functioning alcoholic and you know sitting on dad’s lap back in the day sipping on sipping his Coors was love you know and them watching me wince was cute and funny and all I noted was my dad paying attention to me and to me that was love and attention so already the seeds were planted not to mention the biology behind you know addiction and what have you so I was predisposition for it. Also, there’s undiagnosed, untreated trauma. And we know that trauma and addiction love to tango. They’re like peanut butter and jelly. They love each other, yet are separate things that need to be treated separately. So I grew up in a generation where we didn’t talk about addiction. And it was literally the conversations, well, of course he drinks, look at your mom, right? And that’s that generation. Also, I came from a generation of something happened to you lifted up yourself by the boot strings and you just carried brush it off and carry it on didn’t hurt go and that was strength right so I had to relearn all of everything I grew up with in my 50s when I got sober not not just my education but my learned experience I feel is what I want to give back to people because I know I’m not alone in my the way I was raised and the way I was taught to think about feelings and addiction and the social stigma that still surrounds it. These are interesting times right now. I’m extremely excited to be part of the solution, not the problem. Yeah, I think that we can help people now by just having a conversation, man, right? Just open up the conversation. Let’s go.
Dr. Mark Leeds [05:50] Oh, yeah, definitely. And I have kind of a theory about that, you know, like you hear so many people in Hollywood have addiction problems, problems with alcohol. And a lot of people seem to think it’s because that there’s so many, you know, that, you know, when you make it and you get out, you’re in movies and on TV, that there’s so many drugs around, there’s access, you know, everybody’s pushing drugs in your face. But my theory is that it’s not that there’s any more drugs, or maybe there are, but, you know, that really the problem is that people who are very intelligent and creative, who probably would be more likely to get into that business, are more at risk for getting caught up in addiction. Because a lot of people can try drinking, they can try heroin, can try cocaine, and they put it down at some point, they don’t get addicted. But I believe that some of the people who get addicted and have the most difficulty stopping are high functioning, very creative people. And what do you think about that? Do you feel like that was part of your experience with addiction?
Dedee Pfeiffer [06:51] Yeah, I do think there’s a lot of truth in what you just said. I do believe that there are normies and I believe there are people who actually have addictions because they’re, you know, so for instance, you could, two people could go to war, fight the same battle and come back and one has PTSD and the other one doesn’t, right? But they experience the same experience. So it’s the same thing with someone with an addiction in someone who may be using alcohol in the moment to self-medicate. They’re going to respond differently to alcohol and what have you and use it differently and that whole thing. So are there more drugs? I don’t know if I would say there’s more drugs. They’re always there, right? But are you predisposent to addiction? You know, like I don’t understand the person who leaves a half a glass of wine at the table. Who does that in my world and my addicted head? Nobody does that. That’s a perfect glass of wine. You got to finish that. Whereas the normie goes, well, I was finished. But someone with an addiction is not even close to being finished right so and it’s also there’s the chemical part of the brain there’s a theory about that some agree some disagree whether or not you believe in the biology of addiction and being predisposed predisposed is certainly your opinion and your journey but I think being open to all of that it’s really important but you’re absolutely right when it comes to artists people who generally are drawn to acting or writing directing anything to do with you know music just the arts are almost always going to be more open and vulnerable to feelings and emotions that’s how you tap into that part of you that’s going to also make you more open and vulnerable to drugs and if you also have an addiction, it’s going to be problematic. Right. Also remember undiagnosed and untreated trauma, almost always we’re going to self-medicate for that. Right. Cause it doesn’t feel good to care, to constantly be bearing and pushing down trauma. So then there’s that, which is separate than addiction. So you’ve got a lot of things going on. I think also sometimes feelings are just really a lot to handle. We just want to check out. We just want to numb out. We’re not taught as children to check out in a healthy way, especially if you have an addiction, you, there’s a liquor store around the corner and go get a thing of booze. And if you’re too young, I’m sure someone will buy it for you. Right. It’s legal. There you go. Here’s another way to check out. And now there’s a lot of ways to check out, but what’s exciting about being in recovery is we do get the opportunity to learn set skills to learn how to check out and in a different way. That’s not outside ourselves and more powerful because we’ve only tapped into a fragment of our brains. So when you’re in recovery, you get… And you can kind of be quite powerful and you get to explore different areas of yourself being energy in the world. And it’s an exciting time right now to be sober because there’s a lot to learn about us as human beings on this earth and other life forms. Let’s talk about it. I’m sorry, I’ll say it. Yep, I believe there’s something else going on out there. We can’t be all it otherwise that just scares me there’s got to be something else too
Dr. Mark Leeds [10:01] Oh yeah yeah did you did you see that new thing on tv moonfall that was pretty good with the moon and the aliens and everything
Dedee Pfeiffer [10:08] Oh no I didn’t see that but I’m I only watch like raw footage of people’s of like ufo sightings ancient ancient aliens there is oh yeah
Dr. Mark Leeds [10:19] Yeah that’s a great that’s a great show yeah
Dedee Pfeiffer [10:21] I love that hypothesis I love that idea it certainly seems to put a lot of mysterious pieces together that not it never really kind of made sense their theory actually makes a lot of sense and even though I talk about my family thinks I’m nuts I’m like seriously think about what they’re saying I mean the chariots of the gods there was a bestseller for bestseller for a reason right it’s just so interesting to think about that as a possibility. I think it’s an exciting time to be alive right now. And when you’re sober in your away from your addiction and your addiction isn’t kneecapping, you have the opportunity to be clear headed to explore phenomenons and mysteries of the world. That’s kind of exciting. I think it’s my new addiction.
Dr. Mark Leeds [11:03] Yeah, it’s definitely interesting. I was curious. So did you, did you get a rehab initially?
Dedee Pfeiffer [11:09] Yes. Four years ago, my family tried to do an intervention and at that same moment in time I do believe mother earth or something was overseeing me and taking care of me because at that point I had been looking at 800 numbers on tv 1-800 anonymous addiction and stuff like that I just was so riddled with shame and fear and helplessness and feeling like a big loser I didn’t know how to ask for help and so when my family came to me and said we’d like to do the intervention I said okay I’ll go just take care of my animals and my children. And they were very shocked that I didn’t tell them to F off. They were very shocked that I didn’t once again, attack them. Cause you know, when you talk to somebody who’s active in their disease and they’re not ready, you will get attacked. That’s the addict protecting itself and keeping its voice and remaining in the driver’s seat of your body, soul, and mind. Right? So somehow my addict had, I don’t know, got exhausted and the authentic self came peeking through for a moment in time to say, okay, I’m ready. And I went two days later, I was in intensive 30 day, 30 day intensive rehab. And I will say this Mark, I always felt like an outsider, not uncommon when you hear to hear addicts say they’ve always felt like they didn’t fit in. That was me. I still don’t feel like I fit in. But let me tell you, when I went to rehab, I found my peeps. I found people like me. I didn’t know them. They didn’t know me, but I, and I didn’t know their story. They didn’t know my story, but we knew each other on a level that kind of like a survivor, a rape victim would meet another person who’s also survived that. They just get each other with a silent language and communication because they’ve experienced something that no one else has. That’s rehab for me. And I met people that are amazing and people in recovery who are trying to save their lives, which is what they’re doing. Because remember, addiction is a disease. No one wakes up and says, Hey, I want to be an addict. That sounds like fun. No, it’s not the way it is any more than someone wakes up and says, Hey, I want cancer. That sounds like fun. They’re diseases that need to be treated, period. Sadly, cancer doesn’t have social stigma, alcoholism and addiction, especially meth and all that they have terrible social stigma, because it goes with this horrendous attitude that they want that they’re asked for it. It’s horrendous. Nobody asked for an addiction. I wouldn’t wish that upon the worst enemy. You know, I just, it’s horrible. And those of us in recovery are trying to save our lives every day because those who give up go to the light too soon. And I sadly have said goodbye to too many people to addiction, including my son’s 17 year old son, who was like a son to me. And my son had to bury him. Did the eulogy put the dirt on his grave shouldn’t be doing that at 17 years old that no yeah that’s not what my son should have gone through nor his family and then his sister went a month later I mean that family just riddled with loss fentanyl you know addiction untreated undiagnosed and you know so I feel like one of the very fortunate and very grateful to have been hit whatever my bottom looked like at that time in my life for whatever the reason I was open and ready to this day I’m grateful for that day I’m grateful rehab was tough but let me tell you it saved my life and I do it all over again if it means I get to sit here and talk to you on this podcast about this conversation where I get the opportunity to maybe help one person today just one and it was a big day for me you know
Dr. Mark Leeds [14:44] Just one yeah so you it sounds like you went through So you went through rehab and you haven’t had a drink since, right? For since the day you walked into rehab, that was the last time you used any alcohol or any substance, a minor mood altering chemical.
Dedee Pfeiffer [15:00] There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Because I did use AA, although I’m not religious. And by the way, for those of you who like me used to make fun of people at AA and I have issues with the organized God thing, I’m not going to ever, ever shame or judge anybody for having their God. Actually, people in recovery who have a strong God, their recovery is a lot easier. For those of us who don’t, it’s a little more complicated, doable, but trickier. Like I just had to find something that I believed in my heart and my soul that was bigger than me, stronger than me, more powerful than me, that I could just say, whoa, right? And be humble to. For me, that’s Mother Earth. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want anybody who’s bigger, more strong, more powerful than Mother Earth and the universe around her. That’s my higher power, quote unquote. That’s my God, right? So when you have that, it creates humility and a place to start. Breaking down and peeling the onion of recovery, right? Getting down to the authentic self. But I have not had a drink and I used AA at the time, but I went through the AA book and I crossed out all the words that said God and I put mother earth and I made it my own. And I am a big advocate for making your recovery your own, whatever that looks like for you. And for those who judge your recovery, that’s their journey. Just kind of ignore the noise and keep your poise because everybody’s recovery looks different because every no two people are alike no people’s addictions are alike and no two people are alike I mean twins are different right so I know a lot of people who wear their sobriety like a tight corset right like the gps and what have you there are those who are very rigid about their sobriety that’s cool like they don’t even take an aspirin I’m like good luck with your headache man I’m sorry I have to take an advil everyone I traveling all the time with big sky and I get like elevation blah blah blah so I gotta take Advil and that does that doesn’t mess up my chip right my sober chip but for some that would and that’s okay I don’t judge them but I wear my sobriety more like a warm fuzzy robe and a lot of the friends I have that are my that are my sober friends also you know so you’ll find your peeps out there is my advice right if you go to AA and they’re a little too stuffy go find another one go find another one I mean would you go continue go to a dentist that keeps poking your gums and making you bleed I hope you go find another one that doesn’t do that right it’s okay yeah but I don’t I mean I do understand that because I remember going to AA one time when I got a DUI back in the day and I remember going ah these people are freaks and I just thought it was a little it was just scared the shit out of me but first of all I wasn’t ready and number two I felt like they were trying to brainwash me and they were going to suck me into their cult and, you know, and all that. And I think that does probably exist here and there. But there’s also other ones that are really beautiful and loving, supportive, and they’re just there for you if you need it, you know, someone to lean on or sit in the back and just listen and pull the mothers, just pull from lean on them a little bit. Yeah.
Dr. Mark Leeds [18:01] Are you familiar with this? There’s a have another movement, you know, different from the abstinence movement with alcohol, the Sinclair method, where people take naltrexone and they continue to drink, and then drink a little bit less over time, and then get to the point where they either don’t drink or they have an occasional drink, which is a totally different thing.
Dedee Pfeiffer [18:20] Yeah, harm reduction is a slow progression versus abstinence, which is a stop. I actually learned at UCLA, and a lot of people I know who are clinicians in rehabs absolutely do not agree with that and are into AA, you stop, that’s it, right? Because I’m educated from UCLA in addiction and mental health and what have you, I’m, it’s interesting actually being sober doing that class because it’s completely the opposite of how I got sober, which is AA and abstinence, right? Just stop. And you will lose your clean chip if you did anything and all that, which, you know, that’s fine. That’s cool. But I’m aware of that and the smart recovery program. There’s a lot of ways to get sober and that excites me. I was in the field with the homeless when I was doing my internship and let me tell you when you’re experiencing homelessness and you’ve got undiagnosed trauma and all sorts of stuff going on out there and life is just really throwing you a shit ball. I think it’s kind of hard to ask them just to quit anything, whatever the DOC or drug is. That’s hard. The best I think you can do is help support them until they get housing and help is to maybe do lateral moves which is harm reduction going from meth maybe to pot you know from tequila which is a crazy one even when I do tequila I turn to like this crazy person to beer or some you know I mean just slowly you know eke them out and I think for some people who are not experienced on homelessness going through addiction harm reduction is going to work for them better than just absence, which is just stop, right? Again, I’m an advocate for whatever floats your boat, man, whatever helps you get on the path from being the identified problem to the identified possibility. And all of us who are in recovery, the minute you choose to take that journey, you immediately become the identified possibility. Kathleen, the gal who ran on the rehab, Murphy was the one who came up with that because we are considered, you know, in the family dynamics that identify problem, but she said, that’s true. But then once you start recovery, you literally become an identified possibility. And if you hold that like a badge of honor every day, that does help a little bit, keep you showing up. Showing up means just don’t use that day, right? Some days that’s all you can do is just not use and you’re still ahead of the game.
Dr. Mark Leeds [20:44] So you’ve been through this whole education, the psychology. Did you graduate with a master’s in psychology?
Dedee Pfeiffer [20:50] I graduated with a bachelor’s of psych and a master’s of social work from UCLA. No, actually, I’m sorry. My bachelor’s of psych was from CSUN, California State Northridge University or, you know, yeah, that. You’d be surprised that I have college education. I can’t even thought. So I do have a background in psych, but then my area concentration became mental health and the homeless and addiction. So I chose the social work program at UCLA because it’s incredibly diverse. Our education revolved around biopsychosocial and macro, meso, and micro. So it was a really well diversified degree. And at the time I remember thinking, why are they making me study all this stuff has nothing to do with what I’m interested in wow they prepped us to get into the world and be able to have strong edge smart conversations with people so you know upstream versus downstream perspectives right and getting involved on a policy level you know versus always being in the field collecting data and work with old systems that are broken right social workers can only do so much when you’re working with a broken system I’m sorry it’s just that’s just the way it is and they’re the most underpaid people it’s kind of crazy you don’t go into social work because you want to get rich people go into social work because they care about people they just get beat up because of because of the broken systems you know which is why I don’t work with children because I just I can’t that really bothers me so those who go into that are just saints, if it’s me. But so I worked with adults. And yeah, and I’m really excited that I had the opportunity to get back on Big Sky, because it’s giving me like this platform to talk to you, right? You wouldn’t even know I was alive if I was just out there in the field doing one on one clinician work. But getting back on screen is enabling me to give me this platform to help people on a larger scale. And I hijack all my Big Sky interviews to talk about addiction or mental health, because it’s a great opportunity to do that. And I personally think people are ready to listen. Now we’re ready to be educated. And hopefully one thing I say can help educate somebody on something, you know, and make them feel like, oh, that’s what it looks like to have just a conversation about things that are hard to talk about. Right.
Dr. Mark Leeds [23:05] Yeah, definitely. And you know, I would have been happy to talk to you and get your story out there, even if you didn’t decided not to go back to Big Sky. So, but I have, yeah, so the thing about being educated, that’s actually really interesting, because there’s some of the rehabs that the people that work in rehab are people that may just have like a very minimal certificate, you know, maybe they went for a month to a training program, they get a certificate in addiction counseling, or whatever they call it. And there’s a study that I read about, I don’t remember the details, but that they showed that the people with more education and addiction and psychology are much better at helping people and being less confrontational and more open-minded and just provide getting better results. And so when people go to rehab and they’re kind of like beat over the head by these people in the rehab that work there, you know, you think you’re going to go into a medical facility and have nurses and doctors all around you. And then you discover that the people working there, you know, maybe the reason they’re there is that they were addicted themselves and now they’re in recovery and they get a certificate. And, you know, you definitely need more people going through what you’ve gone through, you know, like a full, full education and fully, you know, really knowing, learning about how the brain works and what addiction is and how to work with people and being open-minded about that there are different paths of recovery.
Dedee Pfeiffer [24:23] Yeah, I agree with you. I think that anything that’s linear is not always the best way to go. Meaning I come from one of my internships with LA family housing and one of the things that they are really proud that they do which is very effective is they have a multi-disciplinary wraparound philosophy right they have a small team that goes out into the field that which contains a specialist in addiction a specialist in mental health a peer advocate the guru of all outreach this guy named eric who’s amazing and then of course an intern right and that was me and this is a multi-disciplinary small group that goes out and approaches each person, we come to where they’re at, right? And one of us is going to resonate with that person, not all of us, but one of us, and we have to let them tell us who that is. But we come at them from a multi-layered perspective, not just linear. And I’m a big fan of that because I think it’s really effective. So you’re talking about someone who is, say, for instance, a peer advocate, someone who’s experiencing addiction, that’s fantastic. But then where’s the other levels of that right and I think that one compliments the other you have someone who’s learned it and educated the biology of it or the brain the you know predisposition all all the bio part you know biology of it and then you maybe throw a social worker in there who understands culture who understands you know environment right nature versus nurture and then you throw a peer advocate in there and then so then you show them what it looks like to have gone through what they’ve gone through. So you show them almost like a little slice of the future with people who are, who are going to come in with their expertise, but you got to keep that ego at the door, man. You got to let, you know, John over here, Cindy over there, do what they do. Right. If we’re looking at addiction, not trauma or vice versa, you got to let, you got to let that person in the group kind of come step forward to start the conversation and go from there and right and the assessments should also be very individual I feel just checking boxes on a departmental health you know questionnaire and then checking the box the dsm-5 and then making an assessment so the insurance pays for and give them some drugs and then maybe a little therapy here and there I think we’re past that now we’ve got to go deeper richer more and my philosophy is let the client tell you what they need and see if you can provide then if not then you need to bring someone else on your team who can help out how about that how about that be big enough of a man woman they to say oh I don’t know if I’m educated to deal with this person’s trauma they got addiction I understand addiction part but then that’s some deep trauma oh I better bring somebody else in here who understands trauma and then we work together right yeah yeah trauma
Dr. Mark Leeds [27:09] Trauma is a major issue now do you now what do you think of this whole thing like just very recently and now they’re it’s in the news that they’re saying that a lot of these psych drugs that people go on like if you go to a psychiatrist and you might think that they’re going to put you on a couch and give you a psychoanalysis like freud or something like that doesn’t really happen at psychiatrists anymore you go to the psychiatrist and you’re there for like maybe 5 10 15 minutes and you get a handful of prescriptions and now they’re saying a lot of the psych drugs are either ineffective or are possibly even very toxic or harmful to the brain long-term. How do you feel about that with all these things like the serotonin reuptake inhibitors like Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro? Have you heard about that in all the benzos they say are highly toxic to the brain long-term?
Dedee Pfeiffer [27:55] Yeah, that’s a big question. I think that there’s some truth in that. I think that some drugs are absolutely misprescribed. I’m very aware of now the psychiatry basically go in and you do a battery of tests and they’re asking the same question 10 different ways and basically trying to check a box to diagnose you to give you a drug and a pill and you go right I have a problem with that I think in some cases it actually is very effective but not all you know so if you’re there to do an assessment to see if you need psychiatric drug or you know some kind of I don’t know anti-anxiety depression what have you it’s tricky because if that’s what they’re looking for that it’s not too difficult to find. But if they’re not looking again, they’re not, they’re only looking at it in a linear way. So, and is it toxic? Probably. Now I will self admit that I’ve been on 10 milligrams of Lexapro for, I don’t know, six years. There’s been moments where I thought, Ooh, I should probably take more, but instead of bumping up the drug, because right now most people would say it’s probably not even working at this point. I’m immune to it. I know that in the beginning it gave me just a platform, meaning I still felt anxiety, but I didn’t bottom out. It gave, you know what I mean? It gave me just enough help and support so I could use other skills to control and help with my anxiety. But when you’re bottoming out, you know, from anxiety, it’s really tough to use any set skills, right? So if you’re prescribed correctly, which is little bits here and there, alongside other treatments, like learning how to breathe, learning how to be mindful, learning, you know the trigger just all this other work in conjunction with these drugs done in a moderate way and being open to oh wait a minute you know honestly let’s call it what it is I don’t know if drug is really the right thing for this individual patient
Dr. Mark Leeds [29:47] Yeah
Dedee Pfeiffer [29:48] I don’t know if there’s a psychiatrist out there who’s going to bump you out of the office say that and that scares me because that should be a conversation maybe there’s a different treatment for this that doesn’t doesn’t involve drugs. Some people don’t want to do drugs for those very reasons that you mentioned. I don’t disagree with that personally. So my experience has been good, but I have a lot of friends where it’s not been good. And so I think, again, that’s individual. I like the idea that we are getting away from pharmaceuticals and we’re trying other things, other ways. I like the idea that if you look at the indigenous populations and what they used to do, I think is better than what we’ve come to think as treatment, you know, going back to basics is always a good place to start. Like I said, it’s a really exciting time to be alive because we are kind of going back to home base in some cases. But when you have big, powerful money, people who control and power, they’re not, they’re going to fight you. They’re going to fight you. But I say, come on, man, keep an eye on going. If you can find something different, absolutely. Get that out there. Let let us know there’s other ways for sure when I’ll probably get off Lexapro and then that’ll be the end of that right but right now I’m still learning set skills in my sobriety and my still discovering my sober legs what that looks like and controlling my anxiety letting it not kneecap me because I do think we can change our own brain brain chemistry but that’s a lot of mindfulness work and other work on oneself right that some people are not interested and that’s cool that’s all right I mean I gotta say I don’t some days I’m just not into it some days I’m just like oh this is why I used to drink I just take just drink and then be over it you know but yeah I do that or I can’t no let me correct I can but I’m choosing not to so I have to reach for other things you know in those moments
Dr. Mark Leeds [31:40] Yeah yeah that’s definitely a lot of different kinds of therapy. There’s a CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, DBT.
Dedee Pfeiffer [31:50] Yeah, DBT is huge right now, DBT, yeah.
Dr. Mark Leeds [31:52] Yeah, what is that about, yeah, what is DBT, like how does that, how would someone do that, how does that help?
Dedee Pfeiffer [31:59] Well, I think just to make it simple, simple terms, DBT is more of an active therapy. It’s about action. It’s not just psychotherapy, we sit there and talk, talk, talk. It’s not talk therapy. You’re not going to sit there and talk all day, right? DBT is very action, it’s it which I good because when you when you’re asking someone to get up off their butt and do something physically do something you know you’re giving them like homework you’re giving them things to do they get that to me is being part of your treatment plan that is for me being you know being involved in it and I think that’s important the days is like you said sitting around and the old therapies I feel are kind of going out the door you know I always told my clients you need to be part of your treatment plan. Ask questions, ask questions. It’s okay. They’re like, yeah, but they went to school. They know. I said, yeah, they know. And they don’t know. Okay. They know the stuff from the books. Okay. Maybe they’re their own life experience, but only, you know, you, and I would tell my clients that I go, I’m like, dude, you got to tell me who you are. And then I’m going to figure out a way to try to help you. And we’re going to do this together, but you’re going to take the lead. I’m just going to help, help you do that. Cause that’s the most effective best therapy versus come in here’s a pill go and you know now I’m not going to say that medicines don’t work because of course they do in some cases given properly that is a there in lies the question is that really happening we I think we can agree not necessarily all the time sadly
Dr. Mark Leeds [33:26] Yeah yeah that’s and you know mindfulness you know some I think people when they hear that and they think about it they’re like well that’s kind of obvious you know I just have to be aware of my surroundings and things like that. And then they kind of go about the rest of their day. At least I would, you know, if you tell me be mindful, I’ll probably sit there for a second, say, oh, look, there’s a squirrel on the tree and, you know, I’m breathing. And then five minutes later, I’m back to normal, normal life and running around doing stuff. How can a person practice mindfulness better and get some benefit out of it?
Dedee Pfeiffer [33:58] Again, I think it’s very subjective. It’s very individual. What may work for me may not work for you, but I think that’s part of what’s kind of fun. Discover what works for you. For me, getting out of my own way is very helpful because I will mess myself up quicker than anybody else could. And I think most people are like that. Our own narratives by far are so much more dangerous than anybody else because we can be pretty cruel to ourselves in our heads, right, doctors? You’re ugly, you’re fat. No one’s gonna like you. You’re old, you got wrinkles. I mean, I would never say that to any individual human being in my life, but boy, I have no troubles going at myself like that, right? So one of the things I was taught is get out of your own way. When you start to hear that narrative, that internal conversation, which is toxic and not helpful, get out of your own way. And sometimes just throw yourself out of your thoughts. For me, I have to get up and walk out of the room, sometimes walk around the room. I’ll go do laundry, go wash my coffee cup, text my sober friends, or I like to watch octopuses. They’re shapeshifters, man. Come on. You know, octopuses are shapeshifters on earth. So I don’t know why, but for me, it takes me out of my head and I go, how do you just turn into a rock? You were this purple, orange looking, you know, squid or octopus with eyes and multiple hearts, multiple brains, and you just turned into a rock. And now I don’t know. That gets me out of my head quicker than anything, but that’s me, right? Because I think also anything with mother earth and these mysteries of the world, get me out of my own way for you. It could be something else. I don’t know what that looks like for you, but here’s where you get to discover that. Right. That’s super helpful. I find mindfulness for me sometimes is to do this too. When I start to have that internal conversation with myself, which is not helpful. It’s how do you say, look at you, look at your thought. Okay. So if I’m sitting here after this interview, I will do this. Okay, well, you talk too much. You said too much. You feel really vulnerable. You should have self-edited what you said. And this is what I’ll start to do. And then I’ll stop myself and say, wow, look at that thought. What was that about? That was like a drive-by. You just offered your vulnerability in an interview, Dedee. And then your internal conversation with yourself is to beat the shit out of yourself. What is that thought about? And now I’m looking at my thought. Then I’m looking at myself, looking at my thought. And all of a sudden you’re right. And if you keep doing that, literally stopping and looking at your thought or acknowledging your thought or questioning your thought or asking yourself, where’s the forensic evidence to support your thought? How is it given an interview, giving your heart a bad thing? Where’s the evidence to support that, Dedee? That’s just your old voice that just wants to come in and kneecap you. Go take a walk, girl. Go eat a piece of chocolate and get a big cup of coffee because that’s how you’re that’s how you’re gonna reward yourself in sobriety chocolate and coffee you know or animals for me are incredibly healing they center me for me that’s me for you it’s I don’t know what that looks like for everybody it’s different but I think discovering what will help you get out of your own way is a beautiful task and a little skill in being mindful. It helps calm you so you can be mindful. Because I think it’s hard to go from 10 to zero. You know what I mean? Because if you’re doing something where someone’s asking to be mindful, it’s kind of hard. So baby steps to get there sometimes help just physically doing something or, you know, just moving, get out of the, if you’re sitting, stand up, if you’re standing, sit, you know, like right now in this interview, I’ve moved around a few times. And every time I move, I kind of feel a little different. My thoughts start to change a little bit, you know, so you can actually change your thoughts. Yeah. And your intentions.
Dr. Mark Leeds [37:56] When you speak about mother earth, have you heard the theory that like the whole, I guess all the trees are connected by this mycelial network of fungus under the ground. Like it’s this huge neural network and maybe even like some kind of intelligence and communication system of the earth communicating
Dedee Pfeiffer [38:14] Oh my god yes and that is most beautiful discovery that we have now access to because if you think about that’s mankind they’re under there we’re on top we’re all connected the difference is they’re connected and we’re not connected the world’s never been more divided and that’s really sad can you imagine if all the plants like what you just described were not connected, what would the earth look like? Wouldn’t look as beautiful as it is. Wouldn’t be as dynamic and powerful as it is. And that’s why we as human beings are not as dynamic and powerful as we can be because we’re not connected like they are under there. And that is pure energy. I always do this, Mark. I always think about this. What if every person in the world, okay, let me not be idealistic. Let’s say 95% of all human beings on the earth at one time, at the same time, let’s say at one o’clock today, wherever you are everybody 90 of the people stopped close their eyes and thought of something positive whatever that is for you something positive it makes you smile 90 of all mankind did that at the same time I think something dynamic would happen to our earth like I think something energy but I don’t know what but I think it would be mind-blowing and show the naysayers that they’re wrong and that we are more powerful than we ever give ourselves credit for, but we’re only as powerful as we are connected, right? Like the trees, they’re connected under there, they’re talking, they’re communicating, and with the mushrooms and all that stuff under there, absolutely. As human beings, we just got to ignore the noise, keep your poise and continue on trying to be part of the solution, right? Not the problem. And don’t give into that noise. We have to continue advocating for getting back to the light right and the love and the compassion this is not a you know hippie thing I’m talking about you know because I know my mom’s generation be like oh she’d say something snarky I get that I understand the older generation and their old way of thinking I get it and it’s clashing with the new way of thinking I get it but there’s room for everybody but there’s more room for the light you just got to give them more of a platform to be
Dr. Mark Leeds [40:30] Like yeah definitely now what there’s there’s been also like a recent movement of you know a resurgence of talk of these psychedelic compounds everything from ayahuasca to ibogaine to psilocybin that you know this is like the new therapy coming up with for depression anxiety addiction chronic pain everything and some of what you’re talking about reminds me of an interview I did with someone who had had an ayahuasca experience with a shaman and she said coming out of it that she discovered her connection with the earth and her appreciation for animals and was now vegan and feels that we need to treat the animals better and the earth better and change your entire outlook like what do you think of that as a possible therapy or is that something that people should do or not do
Dedee Pfeiffer [41:17] You know mark I can’t believe you brought that up I literally just had a conversation with my friend who I graduated from ucla with we had this conversation just last night a lot of people I know are micro dosing is what you’re talking about and I probably get a lot of trouble from the gal who ran who ran my rehab because she is not going to agree with what I’m going to say and that’s okay that’s cool I feel that’s what I was kind of getting at earlier when you go back to the indigenous population the shamans and how they used to use these okay that’s how they used to heal people’s ailments and they were very effective, but the key word there is micro, right? Micro dosing. They were literally using them as medicines back in the day for depression, alcoholism, or mental health issues. What have you, they were doing this way back, right? Way before we were around or even doctors that the doctors we now know, you know, pharmaceuticals and all that. So there’s a lot to be said about that. They use them, I believe correctly. They weren’t using them to check out, get higher, what have you and they were absolutely using them also to connect with higher powers and energies that we can’t see I believe in all of that my fear is that unless you know that you’re dealing with a true addict in front of you because us addicts we are very very clever we are very cunning you know and if I can figure out a way to get high and keep my sober chip I’d do it are you kidding me and not have my kids or my family or my friends look down upon me? I’m fine. Oh, are you kidding me? I’m there, but I can’t figure that out yet. And I know damn well that if I said yes to micro dosing, I would be basically trying to get high. That’s it. You know, I know me, right? So, but for those who do need help, who are not addicts, absolutely. My concern is those who are actually addicts could be transferring their addiction to something else and not necessarily dealing with the addiction because addiction is different. Like I said, it really has to be teased out from other things. So I think it’s really effective. I think when, again, moderation, man, isn’t it all about that? Isn’t it like when you look at extremes, I mean, I’m not going to go political on you. I promise you I won’t. But anytime you go extreme one way or the other way, it’s never a really good idea. Generally, the answer is somewhere in the middle. And I think with that, it’s the same, but we do have to go back to where it was, how they used to use it and be really careful because I know for a fact micro dosing has been offered to some of my friends who are addicts and I’m personally not sure if that’s the smartest thing we will see right I hope it doesn’t lead them back into a relapse but I don’t know I mean I think that it’s still new and yeah but I do I have heard it’s really effective for like PTSD and soldiers and what have you and bipolar and a lot of yeah absolutely hey listen I’m all into if you’re hurting you’re suffering if there’s a way that there’s some treatments may help you please absolutely I’m the first I’ll drive you there right but I just want to make sure that it’s right and if it’s not that’s okay we gotta we gotta switch it before it takes you to the light too soon it’s not everybody’s that stuff right yeah
Dr. Mark Leeds [44:28] Yeah someone had told me about that with that MDMA therapy the MDMA being like ecstasy where normally when people take it recreationally they run around falling in love with everybody and this guy said well therapeutically when it’s used for ptsd it can help a person to fall in love with themselves again and to forgive themselves for things and you know some really beneficial things in that way
Dedee Pfeiffer [44:48] I think that’s beautiful I if that’s what it actually ends up doing that is beautiful that’s awesome yeah absolutely yeah I don’t I’m getting a lot of trouble all the people who I got sober with to go oh he just said this on me yeah I did okay come on because again I’m really trying to leave a lot of space and room for other things I think it’s really important to my sobriety I was taught to be curious not resistant curiosity right is so important versus resistance because you’re open to all the information around you curiosity does not mean acceptance it just means being curious and not resistant so you can get all the information and then decide from there, right? I wouldn’t want to take any of these choices away. And if that’s something you want to try, great. I know for me, probably not a good idea. I won’t be doing that anytime soon just because my addict’s too slippery, man. I don’t trust her. She’s locked in the trunk. I’m driving my car. Uh-uh, no, she’s going to drive us into a wall, man. No way. Uh-uh, I don’t trust her.
Dr. Mark Leeds [45:57] So and speaking of other kinds of therapy like there’s of course any kind of therapy that involves creativity like creating art music painting drawing you know those are all excellent forms of therapy now now do you find that going back to acting you know now that you’re on big sky season three do you feel is that like a creative outlet for you do you feel it’s in any way therapeutic
Dedee Pfeiffer [46:19] Yes yes and yes I like I said went to academia for 10 years so when I got back to acting, it was, and with a year of sobriety, I still hadn’t really gotten my sober legs underneath me yet. So it was all encompassing being back into the arts, all encompassing doing it sober, all encompassing having lived in the real world, in the encampments, under the freeways, with those experiencing homelessness, with the pit bulls, in the department of mental health, you know, being a clinician, learning all this really in the bowels of the world, our society, our culture, our community, being like with real people and then going back to behind the cameras and sober wow wow and wow I highly recommend for all artists to if they’re not already go dabble in the real world right that’s where you’re going to get your art from that’s where you’re going to pull your stuff from and when you blend the two together your art and the real world and all your life’s lessons and learned experiences and education all that’s where that’s where it is that’s where you get to be very colorful as a person and you can touch more people with your art you know and yourself you know so it’s it was shocking though let me tell you it’s like this is weird doing this sober I mean no I never drank while working you know but that doesn’t mean that I wasn’t there at the happy hour the minute I was done
Dr. Mark Leeds [47:46] Yeah
Dedee Pfeiffer [47:48] With the buying everybody drinks and in people I didn’t know too.
Dr. Mark Leeds [47:53] So you see like everything is connected, like, like maybe like where at one point you might’ve thought like, well, I wasted years of my life and addiction and years doing this or that. But when you put it all together, it, there’s nothing really wasted. Every experience has some kind of usefulness or bring something to what you’re doing now.
Dedee Pfeiffer [48:10] Yes. And it’s funny you bring that up because sometimes I do that, you know, sometimes I’ll look into the past and think of all the years I lost quote unquote with being active in my disease which is what it is by the way when you’re using your DOC your drug of choice whatever that is gambling sex heroin wine whatever right when you’re addicted to something you’re active in your disease and you do lose quality time with people that you love and not to mention yourself but when I go back there oh the guilt can kneecap me and I again I will start beating the shit out of myself especially because I’m a single mom right and then I have to stop myself and say Dedee what would Kathleen tell you and you know she’d say there’s no healing back there girl there’s no healing back there why are you going back there the healing starts right here in the now right future ain’t gonna help you either because that hasn’t happened yet so looking pulling shit from the past is not going to help you because there’s no healing back there but if you have to pull something from back there to bring it into the present moment to keep you doing something kind of stupid then by all means pull that puppy back it’s called rewriting the tape right but otherwise all you’re doing is kneecapping yourself for no good reason other than an old narrative that’s not serving you any purpose that’s just your default thinking which is beating yourself up, right? Because generally addicts are kind of generally, we go from self hate to being asked to love yourself. And I said in, I said in my rehab, I said, hold on, you told us all or nothing thinking is not healthy. You just told black and white thinking is not healthy, but now we’re expecting to go from self hate, self loathing when you’re in your addiction to self love. That’s all or nothing thinking if you ask me. So I said, how about if we every day just try to find a little baby likes about yourself. Little things that you’ve done that you like about yourself. Like how about the bare minimum of not using that day? That’s a baby like. You know, oh, I opened the door for somebody. There’s a baby like. I helped another sober person. There’s a baby like, right? I didn’t yell at my kid today. Oh, there’s another baby like, right? I held my tongue. So if you, throughout your recovery in your life, if every day you’re gathering little baby likes, maybe one day you’ll get to self-love. But that’s a progression that you know because otherwise you’re setting yourself up for failure I don’t love myself right now but I’m learning to like myself a little bit more every day and giving myself that’s I think is a more palatable and reasonable thing to ask from anybody so I do think we have to be careful when we throw that around you love yourself well hold on that’s hard some you know yeah hold on let’s do the baby liking you find a baby like and by By the way, if you can’t find even little things you like about yourself, then you got to start looking about how are you spending your days? What are you doing that you can’t find one baby like about yourself that you did, right? Or that you didn’t. Yeah.
Dr. Mark Leeds [51:08] Someone told me about a therapy where you take a baby picture of yourself and you fall in love with yourself as a baby by looking at baby pictures.
Dedee Pfeiffer [51:16] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. I did that when we were my first therapist back in the eighties. Ooh. Yeah. She had me take my child out from inside me, give her a name, lead or do. And I put her on a chair across the room and I talked to her. Ooh, that’s powerful. I’ve never bawled so hard. Well, no, I did. I bawled in rehab too. Yeah. Oh, by the way, you know what happens when you cry, you release cortisol. You’re a doctor, you know, this, what am I talking about? Right. You know, they, I think I heard this and I hope it’s true but tears Kathleen always said don’t give people a tissue when they cry because it’s basically telling them to stop
Dr. Mark Leeds [51:54] Oh okay
Dedee Pfeiffer [51:55] So when I remember first when I was bawling in front of her I was thinking why is she letting me just blabber all over my stomach why is she giving me a tissue when she sat there and she was just hearing me and compassionate and beautiful but the woman didn’t give me a damn tissue by the end of it I was like oh using my sleeves and my jacket and I said do you have a tissue I go why would you have it she goes I just think it’s symbolic of saying here’s a tissue stop and I welcome your tears they’re beautiful and they’re releasing cortisol you know cortisol is useful but not so much these days and it produces and it’s not always sometimes it’s good we know for fight or flight right but otherwise it cortisol you know you can release it through your tears why not
Dr. Mark Leeds [52:38] Yeah
Dedee Pfeiffer [52:39] Extra cortisol you don’t need right
Dr. Mark Leeds [52:41] Yeah that’s that’s great though that’s interesting just the idea of like letting someone cry and thinking that it’s therapeutic and like not handing them the tissue because you know you’re giving them that signal like you know don’t cry hold it in which is not good
Dedee Pfeiffer [52:57] Right I didn’t even think about that and I and listen don’t get me wrong I’m not like excited about when I cry and then all my tears and it’s not so much shirt but at the same time you give me tissue I will stop slow quicker than had you not there’s just that raw vulnerability about just being human with your emotions you once with your emotions and it’s okay it’s actually quite beautiful and again we got to get rid of the stigma that oh you know you crying all over yourself you know it’s a bad thing it’s a beautiful thing come on let’s just stop all that nonsense and judgy stuff right that’s just not helpful come on we’re in the millennium now let’s move past that nonsense you know
Dr. Mark Leeds [53:37] Yeah so yeah so I don’t want to keep you too long. Dedee Pfeiffer, your show, Big Sky Season 3. So I think we watched, I think, part of the first season. Now I need to get back to it because we really loved it. And I think we got sidetracked by another show. […]
Dedee Pfeiffer [54:06] […] Mark, you need to get back to the show. You got to keep my butt employed we’re on our third season dude we’re already two episodes into our third season so you got some catching up to do […] we have Reba McEntire this season we got
Dr. Mark Leeds [54:26] Oh wow oh okay we’re all we’re all gonna be watching […] yeah so we’ll all be watching her
Dedee Pfeiffer [54:29] Lunch with her yesterday what an amazing human being I absolutely love her first of all we’re both redheads although I’m pretty the real redhead I’m a colored one we both wear boots okay and she said she’d go ufo hunting with me yeah I’m so we’re in new mexico we gotta go look
Dr. Mark Leeds [54:43] Oh wow yeah have you seen any yet
Dedee Pfeiffer [54:46] Well you know what’s funny I saw something that I didn’t know what the heck that was one night last year because we’ve been here two years now and I was like what the hello that what it was a night and I don’t know what it was I can’t tell it was ufo but I can tell you right now it did not behave or look like a plane drone helicopter clear night the stars here in new mexico are huge and chunky. I mean, you really, it’s a gorgeous sky in New Mexico. So you see everything up there. There was no clouds and it just went floating by. And I went, okay, that is an, what is that? And then it disappeared and it never came back. And there were no clouds. And I was like, oh, I think I just won. I, and I got teary eyed. I’ll be honest. I was like, thank you for showing yourself to me. Now my family’s going to think I’m really crazy. And I don’t care. Cause I know what I saw. I know what I thought. And I asked Reba and she said she saw something the other night. She wasn’t sure what it was either. She said that jury’s still out for her. But this is what an exciting time, right? Oh, yeah.
Dr. Mark Leeds [55:44] Yeah. The Navy says that they’re real. They admit it, that they don’t know what these things are and they’re flying all around them all the time.
Dedee Pfeiffer [55:51] Thank you. And those of us who’ve been believed for a long time have been considered crazy. And now all of a sudden we’re not crazy. It’s like, oh, whatever. Or I’m just like, this is why I think that it’s so important that someone said they saw or they went through something. Don’t, don’t laugh at them. Don’t call them crazy. Let them have their truth. You know, that’s all. And now the phenomenons are kind of coming out now. So we’re not alone. And trust me, if they wanted to hurt us, they would have done it by now. So chillaxer, you’re okay. They’re not going to come get you. They’re not our enemies. You know what I mean so don’t be don’t use fear just use curiosity you know we can all get along it’s fine yeah but big sky Denise my character believes in UFOs too so and guess what Denise is also sober
Dr. Mark Leeds [56:34] Oh wow that’s great
Dedee Pfeiffer [56:36] Oh so when you walk oh that’s right you haven’t seen okay you got to catch up because the way we play Denise which I really love is just like it’s just who she is it’s not this big whole thing that she’s sober she just is you know and it’s really cool and it’s a beautiful way just to represent a sober character on a show you know she’s just one of the many women on the show you have to be sober you know and it’s they make her really approachable and lovable and all that stuff which is really nice because I don’t think that sobriety or people who are sober are often associated with fun or sexy or funny sometimes you know because the dry drunks make us look bad yeah but
Dr. Mark Leeds [57:17] That’s great I mean to some degree you get to play yourself to some extent.
Dedee Pfeiffer [57:21] I bring a lot of DD to Denise, not all, but a lot of me, it’s in Denise’s first character I’ve played that’s like that. And it’s exciting. It’s really fun because of all the work I’ve done on myself. And again, like I say, on my social media, if I were official, I do talk about mental health and addiction. And like I mentioned earlier, I hijack every single big sky interview I have and talk about addiction. And, you know, in the hopes to helping people you know so and I and denise is all about taking care of her girls and helping people as well so it’s super fun yeah
Dr. Mark Leeds [57:56] Yeah and it is a great way to reach people so yeah thank you definitely you know everybody listening definitely go watch big sky and they can follow you on social media I’m sure do we just go on like twitter and look up dd pfeiffer on twitter and instagram official
Dedee Pfeiffer [58:12] On instagram dd pfeiffer official yeah and I do have a twitter
Dr. Mark Leeds [58:17] Yeah make sure you get the real the real one the official like the little star badge next to your name right
Dedee Pfeiffer [58:22] Yeah if you see that little I think it’s a check or a dot or something you’ll know it’s me because it’s I do videos of Denise I have all these celebrities saying what does Denise do when no one’s looking at Doolin Hoyt when the girls are all solving crimes I have all this silly fun stuff and then I have really what I call heartfelt DD random thoughts of the day where I just kind of have these random thoughts about life and being what it looks like to be part of the solution and hopefully put a smile on people’s face a little bit add a little light to their day yeah
Dr. Mark Leeds [58:56] Well that’s great so yeah dd pfeiffer thank you again thank you for joining me on the podcast today
Dedee Pfeiffer [59:01] Thank you mark for having me thank you
Dr. Mark Leeds [59:04] Oh thanks so okay yeah thank you I really appreciate it and we’re all set thanks
Dedee Pfeiffer [59:10] Thank you mark you go have a beautiful day.
Dr. Mark Leeds [59:13] Oh, you too. You too. Have a great day. And of course, I’ll let these guys know when it’s published. And, you know, I’m going to publish this action several different places, but on our main podcast on the Mental Health News Radio Network.
Dedee Pfeiffer [59:25] Oh, God, thank you so much. Yeah, Jen, they’re great. Jen and company, they’re fantastic. We’ll totally promote it on our end. That’s why I got them because I’m lame with that stuff. But they’re fantastic. And you got to check. You got to catch up on Big Sky Hulu. Come on, Mark.
Dr. Mark Leeds [59:41] Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. What are we? We’re watching something on Hulu now. Like, oh, I don’t know what it is. I think it’s the patient or something like that.
Dedee Pfeiffer [59:50] Oh, yeah. I saw the big billboard. That looks really good. OK, I’ll let you finish. And then you got to get back to Big Sky, because like I said, this Wednesday, we’re on our third episode of our third season with Reba and we got Rex Lynn. We got we got in Rosanna Arquette. We got a great cast this year. So,
Dr. Mark Leeds [1:00:07] Yeah, we’re definitely going to watch it. […]
Dedee Pfeiffer [1:00:10] […] And she’s great. She’s playing a character she’s never played before. So it’s really fun watching her. She’s just so good too. And she’s an amazing woman. So thank you. Oh, thank you. Have a great day. Thanks. You too, Mark. Bye-bye. Okay, bye.
