Jay Yow And Harry Derbitsky: A Spiritual Roundtable With Two Friends

Jay Yow [00:01] Hi Harry, where are you based?

Harry Derbitsky [00:04] I’m based in just in a little town outside of Vancouver, Canada. Yeah. And all my clients are, I have no clients in Canada, all are international clients in every continent in the world. And I’ve just started a big project working with the Muslim community. When we’re doing a conference in a couple of days called Addiction in the Muslim Community and why I’m excited about it, I’ve done a lot of conferences but this is the first time I’ve been invited within an organization right we’re setting up a department there’s 20 20 volunteer women it’s who are volunteering and I’m training them and they’ll go out into the muslim community obviously they’ll be a reaction to someone like myself but right with the muslim people and it’s an international organization

Jay Yow [01:12] Is it based in vancouver the muslim community or what is it

Harry Derbitsky [01:18] No no no it’s based everywhere it’s based in australia and then it and then it is an international organization so there’s women from pakistan and Nigeria and California and Europe and Australia. And that’s part of the uniqueness of being outside of, you know, the standard model. Today, we have Zoom and we have multimedia, but the organizations naturally have also reflected that. You know, people have a tendency to pigeonhole you into an area or. Right. But it’s not that’s not the world anymore. The world, the world’s an international global place. And when you start to see the Muslim community, which which is generally speaking, the type of crowd I like to work with is sort of more of the people who are more under.

Jay Yow [02:22] Really? Sorry, I’m just curious. I have to quite I have one question. Like why do you like working with Muslim community? I mean, this is interesting because I’m from Malaysia. So, Malaysia is a Muslim country. So, when you talk about the Muslim, I’m like, oh, this, like, every time I hear people woke up and pray, like every 5 a.m., they will pray in a Muslim mosque everywhere. So, I’m just curious, why do you like working with Muslim community more than the other religions.

Harry Derbitsky [02:51] When you work from the perspectives that I do, I let the energy or God bring me the project. I don’t actually pick the areas. Again, that’s a different concept. I have worked a lot with the indigenous people. I’ve worked I have a project in mental health and so and I and I ran a very successful addiction alcoholism and three principles youtube channel we have well over a hundred thousand downloads and podcasts from it we have in two years we have about 40 000.

Jay Yow [03:42] Wow that’s that’s good that’s like yeah yeah

Harry Derbitsky [03:44] And so when the project when I just when the projects are the ends of course you look for new right new energy and so it I wasn’t looking for the muslim community or was attracted to them except on one level on a global level I feel people are not getting along very well and as you know the jewish and muslim people are not getting along very well at all and there’s a lot of prejudice in there so from a sim symbolic perspective you know myself being a 75 year old jewish person who’s not much into that but and who’s who’s more who has worked with more cultures than anybody you’ve met. And a 27-year-old Moroccan from Casablanca get together to form what we call TAHID, which stands for spiritual unity. TAHID’s spiritual unity of the three principles. And you’ll hear that word a lot from me, three principles. It was a natural progression or a natural offering to the world. We’ve done it for about two years, it started addiction show that I mentioned exploded. It really took off. Immediately, Immediately we had a big audience. Immediately people were being healed. But this one started very, very slow. And then big audience. But again, when you have a lot of status quo approaches, the acceptance by something a little bit different, it wasn’t very big. But what I have a very big nose for.

Jay Yow [05:50] I can’t tell. I can tell. Yeah.

Harry Derbitsky [05:53] Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Really appreciate it. And I can sense not only energy, but can sense opportunity. And that’s just comes with what your natural abilities are and a lot of experience. And that’s

Jay Yow [06:14] So interesting. I’m just curious, have you ever said no to any opportunity to come to your way? Or do you think what’s coming my way must be the higher power or God or spiritual opportunity for me? And you would just take it?

Harry Derbitsky [06:27] I would say no to people. I say no to clients. I have clients all over the world, but if they don’t interest me, I look for a certain type of client. And in your life, you’re moving around and sometimes you’re full with lots of stuff. So naturally, it’s like a business plan. If your business is going really well, you’re not on its own. People come and go, but you’re satisfied. And then at other stages in your life, you’re more open to opportunity. And I would I would say it was that but it’s again the sense of in my case I have a strong sense of who I am and what I want to deliver and so you when you’re when you’re confident naturally and you’re naturally open you’ll you’ll identify ah that’s something that interests me so if it doesn’t spark my interest the answer is no

Jay Yow [07:37] Right so you still you still go back to that sorry oh

Dr. Mark Leeds [07:40] Yeah yeah I was gonna say I want to introduce both of you guys and I was thinking before before we got together and had the idea of doing this I was thinking like this is crazy you know what the three three of us getting together and what do we have in common what can we talk about and I thought like the two of you actually do have kind of a similar meaning in my life. You know, Jay, you know, you’re both kind of, you’re kind of disciples of leaders who have meaning in my life and in your own right are thought leaders. Jay, you’re the producer, are you’re a producer also, engineer and producer of the James Altucher podcast? And, you know, James is a great thought leader, you know, with really his big one idea, his one big idea, I think, is the idea of coming up with ideas every day and keeping the creative muscle going and really like you know that brainstorming idea is incredible and I know he’s been going with that for a long time and I loved his podcast for years I actually honestly stopped listening for a while because it kind of started seeming like a lot of the other podcasts the same guest recycling the same kind of a thing when he brought you in I don’t know when it happened but one day I tuned in I’m like you know this is like a whole new thing it’s like a whole new fresh podcast I mean he really like brought something special to the to the podcast and made it worth listening again and then harry you’re I mean in your own right of spiritual leader I mean the old old days we’d have to climb a mountain to come talk to you and get wisdom from you and I mean you’re that truth yeah yeah direct disciple of sydney banks the founder of the three principles spiritual movement which is a huge movement I’ve been meeting people on my own separate not even through you or looking at your your talks on youtube but just out in the community patients and people like that are like wow three principles you’re into that also like yeah I mean there’s a huge community out there and it’s really incredible and it’s not like a it’s not a philosophy that’s exclusive you know like oh you read the three principles you’re this or that you know it can it can kind of from what you’ve taught me it can coexist with other beliefs and spiritual philosophies and so yeah I just thought like We actually are like a great group of people to have this talk. Harry, can you tell us more about the three principles? Sydney Banks, how it came about, how you got involved with it?

Harry Derbitsky [09:58] Well, the three principles are a spiritual psychology. And what they do, they flow through you, whether you’re aware of them or not. And they create all your psychological human experience. And you notice the difference jay and mark is that it’s a spiritual psychology you see psychology is dealing with form that which is already created and because of that they’re lost and so the world the world is trying to fix the form now the spiritual part of it is if you understand the role of thought and you connect it to the bigger picture you know vis-a-vis the creative ability of ideas that perhaps your guy is talking about Jay I don’t know but you know and so people want to feel good they want to feel happy they want to feel content and in this world, they’re looking for it in the form and they’re identifying it with the house or the woman or the career or the nice clothes or that they look good. But that’s not it. That will never bring you happiness.

Jay Yow [11:24] Wait, are you telling me that my whole life is a lie?

Harry Derbitsky [11:28] I am. I am. Because You have just defined the ego. Right. You’re lying to yourself about what’s important. And what’s important to you is love, understanding, a deeper meaning of why you’re here, how you connect to this global village that we’re part of. How can we how can I feel the power of god inside myself so that I can allow that energy to create that which will satisfy me and beyond my satisfaction beyond my dreams into a world that is magical and when I will have gratitude for that rather than taking possession of it or I did it type of thing you see the world is obsessed with what they can have and what they can achieve the joke is the moment you connect to god now god being just a energy you know the Muslim world calls it infinite intelligence I love that phrase when you tap into the infinite intelligence obviously it’s a lot bigger than Jay’s intelligence yes obviously obviously you know and everyone and at a certain point Jay feels vulnerable you know when you suffer and you know all of a sudden you don’t have any answers and so on

Jay Yow [13:11] Well I’m just curious like how do you obviously you define god as infinite intelligence like how do you find that infinite intelligence like you know like it’s like is jesus a god or you know muhammad a god or is buddhist a god you know those those seems like just a ideology of god

Dr. Mark Leeds [13:33] Seems like like mythology to me a lot of it what kind of like you have greek mythology roman mythology we have Christian Muslim mythology also, I would think.

Harry Derbitsky [13:41] Yeah, see, the joke is you don’t discover God, you uncover God. God’s already in you. God’s already in everything. The indigenous, the spirit of the trees, the spirit of the water, spirit of the sky, all created by the great spirit. Jesus or Muhammad are just human beings who experience enlightenment, which is basically they saw their connection to God. Right. They saw, not they think or they believe. They saw the fact. And at that particular point, when Jay has an insight, not a mental apparition, not a mental thinking, but an insight aside from within, he sees life with brand new eyes. It’s just just what happens to millions and millions of people but a lot of them either get a glimpse of it’s just that jesus sid banks muhammad they walk through the light into a brand new world and they had to talk about it because Jay when you’re in love

Jay Yow [15:04] Right

Harry Derbitsky [15:06] You notice you like to talk about it why is that because it feels so darn good and you notice one thing nobody else is in love and they don’t know what you’re talking about that’s right the world of Muhammad Jesus is like they’re talking about love unconditional love and you’re talking about personal love

Jay Yow [15:31] Right that’s definitely very very very interesting but yeah like I’m just curious so if someone found love like like like you know let’s say not muhammad or whoever I’m just curious like if they found like that sort of enlightenment in themselves do you think they’re ever gonna lost it or do you think they have there’s something that like like the principles I have to practice to keep it going

Harry Derbitsky [15:55] No well the answer is you can’t lose what you have you already have it you already are enlightened right except for one little thing you don’t know it yeah

Jay Yow [16:12] It’s hard knowing like if you’re ever in alignment because like before I moved to actually before the pandemic heads you know I felt like oh I have everything that I need, I have everything that I want. And then pandemic hits, I’m like, is this what I want and need anymore? You know, like I moved to New York City 10 years ago and then I, you know, obviously I live in Queens and now I live in Upper West, which is a little bit upgrade from where I was. And then I’m like, this is what I want. This is what I need. And then a pandemic happened. And then during the two years, I just been pondering like if this is actually what I wanted so

Harry Derbitsky [16:53] You’re here to affect what you can change in your own life and that what you cannot change you’re there to adapt to and how you adapt to it is through your thinking so you one person’s in a traffic jam and they’re screaming I got an appointment and I can’t get through this thing and another person turns the radio on and listens to some smooth jazz or something like that and they’re relaxing oh finally I get a chance to not not be busy

Dr. Mark Leeds [17:31] Right yeah I can I can imagine driving along and feeling really spiritual like one with the universe and everything is great and I’m living the life I want to live and then suddenly I spill my coffee in the car and like everything changes in an instant

Harry Derbitsky [17:46] That’s right that’s right and you can either laugh at your stupidity or whatever you want to do or you can get really uptight but you notice being uptight about it doesn’t help in fact it makes it worse you spill your coffee you go oh shit expression and actually you know you bump into a car we’re right oh yeah it’s a lot worse or you know you get see when you’re in a rattled state of consciousness or rattled mood you look at life differently jay than when you’re in a content state of mind or in a state of peace or to use a business term a state of clarity and so in a state of clarity life looks different to you than when your mood goes down Now, when I say mood goes down, one of the principles is consciousness. And we’re just talking that everybody lives in a level of consciousness that goes up and down every day. So you’re schizophrenic, Jay. Probably, yes.

Dr. Mark Leeds [18:54] Jay, are you anxious about the move? Is it like a big thing moving from New York to Atlanta?

Jay Yow [19:01] It is because I’ve been living in New York. To be honest, I didn’t move a lot. So I moved from fordata to new york 10 years ago and I just stayed in new york for forever so like new york’s my home and then I have to move to atlanta it’s exciting and nervous at the same time in terms of like it’s all new places whole new places I’m excited about it nervous as in like what happened after that you know obviously you know I can adapt to it just like how I moved from Malaysia to US, I can adapt to it. But I felt like as a grown older, I might have lost the adaptability that I have, that I used to have.

Dr. Mark Leeds [19:46] Do you have family here? Are you pretty much by yourself?

Jay Yow [19:48] I’m pretty much by myself. All my family is in Malaysia.

Dr. Mark Leeds [19:52] Is working with James, is he kind of like family for you now?

Jay Yow [19:54] He is sort of my family now. Yeah, he is like my family now. He always take care of me. And I have friends that’s family here too but they’re a little bit further away but yeah so I’m trying to get my mindset back to where I used to be when I moved from malaysia to us but it just you know you after you experience so such a long time here or as you as I grow older experience different things I might have lost that I don’t know

Harry Derbitsky [20:22] You don’t lose anything what it is you’ve you’ve changed a bit right and so you’re you’re you’re caught in your thinking

Jay Yow [20:39] Right overthinking is that

Harry Derbitsky [20:42] That’s right I wrote I put out a talk called all problems are caused by overthinking right yeah so the answer to is nope all problems are solved by not overthinking

Jay Yow [20:57] How I’m just curious like how do you know if yourself is worth overthinking because I feel like overthinking and being cautious it’s just a fine line difference you know obviously you have to be cautious about anything but overthinking it’s sort of take it the next level I’m just curious like how do you find a fine line

Harry Derbitsky [21:16] Well you every client that comes to me comes to me with only one problem. They don’t like their thinking, and they want to know how to control it. Right. That’s your question. Yes. You can’t control it. Oh, no. This can’t control it. I’m sorry. So you can’t turn off your thoughts. You can’t. You’d be dead if you stop thinking. So you deepen your understanding of the role of thought. See, thought is the most direct thing that you’re aware of that affects your psychological makeup, which is your question. I’m uncomfortable. And how do I get comfortable type of thing in a situation that I’m not used to? And the answer is really, you just change thought. Right. Yeah. You’ve got to, you know, you’re in the past thinking of it from your past behavioral patterns and it doesn’t work so how do you know when you’re overthinking it doesn’t work your life doesn’t work you’re you’re you’re you’re keep hitting your nose against the wall right and it frustrates you so you better to have a drink or a joint or whatever that your your modus you know your thing is that you do so you can feel it see your feelings are your guide if you feel uncomfortable that’s coming from your thinking nothing from outside you’re still talking about these outside events are affecting me. Right? That’s nonsense.

Jay Yow [23:06] So I would change my thinking.

Harry Derbitsky [23:08] You just have you just have to understand that your thinking is negative, which is creating that uncomfortable feeling. Now, I know for a fact that Mark, Jay and Harry do not like uncomfortable feelings.

Jay Yow [23:27] Yes. Who likes uncomfortable feeling?

Harry Derbitsky [23:29] I just had and well, I’ll talk to you about that too, because it’s not as simple as what you just said because there’s a deeper level to that and that of course levels levels of consciousness and levels of understanding is the same thing right there’s certain things you don’t understand jay and you and if you understood them you would be able to navigate as the commander of your ship in troubled waters right yeah life has troubled waters It leads to everything you want. Right. So it’s actually not troubled waters. It’s just waters that you think are troubled.

Jay Yow [24:13] So that also, that’s sort of just, I don’t know if I’m putting it right, you know, obviously, but it’s sort of like everything is subjective. You know, they’re just life. And then happy or unhappy or up and down, it’s just the matter of subjective to different person or to a different point of view

Harry Derbitsky [24:34] No that’s that’s total bullshit

Jay Yow [24:35] No sorry I just bullshit you called my you called my bullshit yeah yeah

Dr. Mark Leeds [24:43] When you were talking about like getting you know living a life where you get everything you want in life and you know I guess there’s a difference of being happy with everything you have or getting what you want but what how do you feel about, and I think in the three principles community that there’s people who talk about the law of attraction of being able to put something out there to the universe that I really want this mansion, I want this job, I want this car, or I want some peace of mind and some free time and people leave me alone, or, you know, there might be something, you know, things you want, and you kind of put it out there, hoping that the universe will provide it for you, if you want it in just the right way. Like, how do you feel about that?

Harry Derbitsky [25:25] That isn’t the three principles what you just said and we do and the law of attraction is a lot shallower anything that you do thinking about wanting and desiring and so on is your mental desire to achieve things the idea is you want to find where’s healing mark it’s not in the form it’s in the formless it’s before you know to use Sid’s words time space and matter we’re talking about the world of formlessness using that as an example for you Jay the creativity comes from formlessness that you’re I forget his name what the guy you’re working with so everything everything comes from formlessness and via the three principles creates form our job is to see our role in that and the more we understand how these three principles work it’s like every tool you have in life if you take a hammer and hammered on the wrong side and you go I thought this hammer is supposed to hit this nail in real good and someone comes along and says why don’t you turn the hammer around and you go oh that works really well I how come I couldn’t see that before it’s like that you don’t understand the role of thought so you try to manipulate it and control it and attract things that you think you want. I hate what I want. I hate what I think. Yet I love every thought I have because it’s revealing to me all who I am. All who I am. That’s what I want to know. Who am I? Who’s Harry? I want to know that from a human and spiritual perspective. I’m not interested in I can create a million dollars right stuff because everybody who has a million dollars is unhappy or they’re greedy

Jay Yow [27:38] They’re greedy right let’s use a real word they’re greedy you know

Harry Derbitsky [27:43] So they let the greed control their life and then they teach that to their kids and then they wonder why their kids aren’t happy or you know or why their kids overthink you know type of thing or why they’re anxious, you know, type of thing. I had a client come to me. She paid me a fortune for anxiety. I thought it was going to be five minutes. I couldn’t believe she wanted 10 sessions, but she wanted to, and she wanted to pay a lot of money. And I’m not really into how much money I can make Jay, because I’m 75 years old. I’m interested in helping people. Right.

Jay Yow [28:22] Yeah. Which is great different

Harry Derbitsky [28:23] It’s not I understand you need money your your career is important to you it is important it’s important to mark but it’s not important to me

Jay Yow [28:34] Right I felt like everyone has the number right so like you don’t need that much money you don’t need that much numbers to make to live a meaningful life and your number is mainly want to help people which is great

Dr. Mark Leeds [28:46] It was interesting jay james who you work with james wrote a blog post about billionaires it was like really interesting about how he had met a bunch of different billionaires over his career and he was putting together like what the common things they have what they have in common and it was all stuff about they’re afraid of losing their money they’re greedy they’re mean it’s just yeah definitely probably not a good thing for most people to suddenly have a billion dollars

Harry Derbitsky [29:12] Especially especially if you’re too young it’s a plague in the states that so many 20 year olds are millionaires they’re not ready for it all they’re indulging in stupidest thoughts in the universe and they’re out of balance like crazy because the money allows them to do whatever they want the only thing is they don’t know what they want so they do all these stupid things and you see them and you go this guy’s so immature yeah guy has no idea about what life is about he thinks well I have the money and everybody respects me because I have the money and I can do whatever I want and I create crap

Jay Yow [29:56] Right I also felt like I don’t know if this is true I’m it’s certainly not true for everyone I also felt like you wouldn’t learn the lessons if you haven’t lost anything. So if you’re such a young millionaire or billionaire at like 20 something years old, you haven’t exactly lost anything important in your life to appreciate what you have or the amount of money.

Harry Derbitsky [30:17] But here comes that’s the it’s that’s the key ingredient if you want to keep growing as a human being is you must have gratitude for what life has given you no matter what it is so I teach people to see their beauty everybody else is teaching them to fix their problems I teach people to see their own beauty their own genius their own unlimited potential that’s what people want to do they don’t want to have a lot of money and be stifled

Dr. Mark Leeds [30:47] So what happens like say suppose like I’m walking around throughout the day happy and I’m appreciating my thoughts and loving my thoughts. And now a thought pops up like 30 years ago, I said something really stupid to someone.

Harry Derbitsky [31:02] Well, that’s guaranteed to happen. That’s 100% guaranteed to happen. Don’t ask me where the thoughts come from. I can’t answer that. They just pop up all over because that’s your past, your past patterns. And it’s stored in the brain. So people look right now into brain stuff, all bullshit, you know. It’s the brain operates as a biological computer you’re looking for a spiritual answer you know you’re looking for you’re looking for a real answer you know the world is full of nonsense and making it look like an answer type of thing the brain is just it’s a biological computer it stores it’s has a memory and it’s the best computer that the world has ever ever ever ever ever, ever seen and will ever, ever see. It’s better than artificial intelligence. Oh, yeah. And it stores all this stuff. And it comes and it shoots stuff and it shoots stuff to your body, you know, and you deal with that, with that, with addiction, you know, and it shoots. And if you stop what it shoots, guess what happens? Oh, I look. But here’s the joke. They lose their urge but they don’t lose their thought of it and as long as they don’t lose their thought of it they will always be attracted to it and here’s the other joke you never lose your thought about anything ever ever ever every thought you have is stored but you just have free will to think what you want and at a certain point your level of consciousness has risen your understanding of how thought works has risen and you choose not to activate the thought so there’s no problem having the thought but no one is forcing you to act on it mark yeah no one no one is it’s not a willpower thing. See, we have been trained to think willpower is the great gift. It’s the stupidest gift in the world. It’s ego. You cannot stop thinking, but you can let it pass. There’s a story, this bear is upstream and it’s poop. It’s eating a lot of berries and overeating, you know, typical human reaction but anyway overeating and it poops and there’s a guy fishing down the stream and he plucks the thing out and he looks at it and he examines it and spends a lot of time with it judging analyzing evaluating it and then he says oh my god it’s poop and he throws it back in the water and then this bear had really eaten a lot so the poop is coming down the stream and he snares it up and he looks at it and examines it oh this is poop and throws it in the water but about the fourth or fifth time he just lets the poop go on by that’s your answer let it go on by

Dr. Mark Leeds [34:15] Oh they stop grabbing it and examining it and obsessing over it

Harry Derbitsky [34:21] Yeah that’s what the world does let’s examine it let’s analyze it every problem and what’s the cause of it the cause of it is overthinking great

Jay Yow [34:34] I’m just curious oh sorry go ahead yeah go ahead

Dr. Mark Leeds [34:35] Yeah yeah I was would you say harry is there any truth to like to say spiritually or with our connection to the universe would it be inaccurate to say that we’re like say like finger puppets on one giant big hand with a billions of fingers

Harry Derbitsky [34:53] Yes and no we are we are rumi was a muscle who’s a really wise Muslim poet, we are not a drop in the ocean. We are an ocean in the drop. You must feel this ocean in you for it to be real. It’s real, but you don’t feel it. So you are a single drop. In other words, you are part of the whole ocean, yet just a drop. But you have the power of the ocean in you that’s the part the world doesn’t want to that’s why they go to religion is because they can’t grasp the paradox so you can’t see that mentally mark you have people coming to you all meant you have to have an insight you have to that where your little mind goes quiet for a second and truth pops in you see jay answer to your question yeah on a personal level we live a subjective reality of personal truths right absolute fact everybody knows that but there is another reality the truth the real reality of where the ocean is there and we’re connected to it. And as long as we don’t feel connected to the ocean, we suffer. And how do we suffer? Through our thoughts, which create feelings. Oh, oh my God, I’m creating my own suffering. Whoa, what a mess. Anything else but that.

Jay Yow [36:37] I’m just curious, is there a practice that like one can do? So let’s say if I want to do it for myself, I caught myself up like all this negative taught. Is there a practice that you will recommend or you think it will work for me to catch a time, let it go?

Harry Derbitsky [36:52] Relax and calm down. Slow down.

Jay Yow [36:57] I do that, but sometimes I get so worked up. I have to get into, I love gaming. I play games as Mark knows. It relaxes you, doesn’t it? Yeah, but it does. But also at the same time, I’m like, oh man, I’m wasting so much of my time just playing games because I have to, you know, I have to relax myself. So I don’t know if that’s good for me or that’s bad for me, because playing a game, playing a lot of games also waste a lot of time rather than be productive.

Harry Derbitsky [37:32] You’re not interested in being productive. You’re interested in being happy and content.

Jay Yow [37:37] Right. Right.

Harry Derbitsky [37:38] The answer to your question is it probably does both. It relaxes your mind. Which, see, the problem with the world’s philosophy, the bullshit of the world, the total stupidity of the world.

Jay Yow [37:55] That’s the title of this podcast, the bullshit of the world.

Harry Derbitsky [37:58] Yeah, perfect. The cup is full of water. And they say, be more productive. You have to empty the cup to allow new water in. Right and how do you empty the cup you relax go more into the quiet into the silence that is true within yourself so the water has to if your cup is full and you’re trying to be more productive you’re going to have a big anxiety problem a big psychological problem right you are creating this psychological problem from your lack of awareness of what you need you need see you’re young I’m old my body is telling me what I need I never listened to it when I was your age but it’s telling me what I need your mind needs to empty out your guy is into creative thinking he has to teach you have to empty out if he doesn’t teach that he doesn’t understand

Jay Yow [39:10] Right

Harry Derbitsky [39:11] Because because you have to why does silence work the silence works because you stop your world you’re going psychology and the world is in this story this the airplane pilot comes out says I have good news and bad news the good news is we’re making better time than we’ve ever made before and the bad news they say we’re lost and that’s the world it’s making better time you’re you’re caught up in an image of what success is right that’s not success yeah

Jay Yow [39:53] I felt like I guess you’re right because success is different for everyone.

Harry Derbitsky [40:01] Yeah, and your answer to your question of how much gaming you should do, it’s different for everyone.

Jay Yow [40:05] Yes, maybe too much. I don’t know. Maybe not enough.

Harry Derbitsky [40:11] Just your awareness. See, that’s consciousness. Just your awareness that maybe you’re doing too much is already self-correcting. Because you’re conscious of it. And you notice at first, well, I’ve been really working hard and I need to relax. So I’m good. I get into the game. I have my brother-in-law who’s IT, an IT specialist, and he loved playing games. And of course, his kids are four and seven years old, love playing games. And he’s got all the tablets and all the stuff and all the monitors. And he’s relaxed because he’s tired in the day. He needs to relax. And he takes a joint too, because he likes that relaxes him. And then there’s a point where the problem with desires is they have a tendency to be seductive. And you’re aware that there’s a point where I get out of balance. So there’s a point where it takes me into balance. And then there’s a point where it takes me out of balance. That’s where your consciousness becomes aware of that point right and so I would say when you start and do it which is just a supposition because I don’t know what you’re feeling I don’t know what’s in your head you relax and that really feels good and you’re really and gee it’s great to get your head out of your own thinking isn’t it is yeah it is what a boring world and so you get into this virtual reality which becomes your reality and then you notice with the kids their face starts to get red and they get too hyper and all this stuff right you’re the same way your face gets red it accepted you know it’s and then you stop at the right time and you have energy you stop at the wrong time guess what you have negative energy

Jay Yow [42:21] Right

Harry Derbitsky [42:23] What do you like positive energy or negative energy

Jay Yow [42:25] Definitely positive energy that’s why I’m trying to find every day yeah

Dr. Mark Leeds [42:30] Jay you know I was thinking about what that you when you game I don’t know if all your games are broadcast but I know that you broadcast on twitch and it’s actually kind of fun to listen you know sometimes I’ll put it on the phone the problem with twitch is like you know when you turn the screen off it disconnects but if there is a way like to just keep listening not even to look at the video but it’s kind of fun to hear you talk your way through the game I was thinking like imagine like you game for hours and hours and one day you say you know I’m really gaming too much I’m having a problem with gaming I should quit and then imagine you an email or a message from someone one day saying you know I was really miserable and I couldn’t sleep at night and I was depressed and felt terrible and one night I found you on twitch and started listening and you really calmed me down I mean you could be helping people with what you’re doing

Jay Yow [43:14] Oh yeah I never thought about that because I always thought that gaming because when I started the gaming streaming gaming I always thought I’m doing it for myself because know that’s that’s how I want to broadcast you know my story at the same time like the way I play the game but you know I think I think you could be right you know maybe because a lot of people when they tune into like some streamer or whatever they just have it in the background like helping them to

Dr. Mark Leeds [43:40] Yeah and some some of them are like really you know just some of the gamers are like really kind of abrasive like they’re hard to listen to you know just all over the place and trying to be really dynamic and yeah when you do it you’re kind of you have a calm soothing voice and you know there’s people that yeah so yeah there’s people that would love listening to you and I mean you know even if you imagine you help even that one person out there that’s suffering you know maybe they just quit drinking or something or maybe they’re like going through like a breakup or whatever and you know they tune in somehow they find you whether you know maybe you rebroadcast on youtube or sorry the microphone you know suppose that someone tunes into you and they’re like wow this is like this is really calming you know you’re helping me I mean it’s yes I mean I would say just keep doing it you know just keep doing it and share it with the world the way you’re doing it now

Harry Derbitsky [44:32] And if you’re having fun you probably are calming them them down and you bring up a really valuable point you know sharing isn’t just sharing about awareness it’s sharing energy and loving energy or something you love or something that relaxes people if they’re tuning in you’re helping them you’re helping or thank you yeah and because your heart is good you’re you’re enjoying it that’s you’re sharing that love and passion and it turns out this is one of the greatest ways to share love in the world the conference I’m doing with the Muslim community I want to talk about drugs and alcohol they want to talk about digital addiction you know really yeah because it’s so it’s it they’re women with kids and guess what their kids you know they want how much should the kids watch and how much should they watch and what it leads to including pornography and all that type of stuff you know So the digital world is the world we’re trying to, it’s an expanding horizon. Life is our expanding horizon. It’s the same. It’s just the virtual reality of life. The senses, the more the senses are attracted, which is the five senses are not a principle, they’re an expression of consciousness. And the more the five senses are interreacting with the person, the greater the sense of reality they feel. And that’s just the way we work. But the people are attracted to understanding the five senses rather than what creates the five senses. And that’s the purpose of your life, Jay. The indigenous have a phrase called first cause first what you’re looking for you’re not looking for 15th cause that’s where the brain and trauma that people are talking that bullshit of the world now a new evolution a new evolution of smoke if you want the truth but it first cause you’re not looking for 10th cause you’re not looking out there for the answers where did it originate from Jay and I’m going to tell you where to reach it even from thought right thought

Jay Yow [47:08] It’s such an important important thing and important it is a powerful weapon it’s like it’s I mean like like I totally agree that like you know like like there’s just no way to turn off thought that’s no whether it’s good or bad there’s no way to turn off thoughts you just have to practice and field out you know like the bullshit of the thought you know and only only you know and

Harry Derbitsky [47:34] Don’t do it with a negative feeling

Jay Yow [47:37] Right

Harry Derbitsky [47:38] If you’re going to do it from a negative feeling you’re going to create a negative reality psychology in its present form why they have no solutions coping coping coping you’re chase not interested in coping jay’s living yes jay’s All your questions are, I’m young and I want to express life in the fullest way I can experience it. No, I want to put a band-aid on my problems. Well, obviously that doesn’t work.

Jay Yow [48:11] Well, I definitely have to live in the present more. I feel like I live in the past way too often. Don’t we all? Yes.

Harry Derbitsky [48:19] Welcome to the club of human beings.

Jay Yow [48:22] Well, I’m just curious. So like, like, you know, like how everyone said like, oh, you have to move on from the past. Like for me, I felt like the past is there for a reason. The past is there for, to teach us something that we have learned that we can apply to the future. So I’m not sure if you agree with that phrase, you know, my way of thinking of the past rather than, you know, move on from the past.

Harry Derbitsky [48:46] Right. You actually said the answer to everything is living in the now. Right. There is no past and no future. The only thing that you do is with thought, you bring the past into the present. It’s like, you know, that machine in the circus where it goes down and picks a prize and picks it up or drops it and you get it. That’s what you do with the past. Your mood goes down. The crane goes past, past, past, bummed out. Example, example. Support. This is the reason I feel bad. It wasn’t the reason you feel bad. The reason was you into the present. You colored the present. That’s what thought is. It’s a paintbrush, Jay. You want to paint it black? No problem. God gives you the free will to do that. You want to paint it happy? No problem. You want to paint it being in the now and being connected to God? No problem. You have the free will to create whatever you want, Jay. Right. And you do through your stupidity and through your wisdom.

Dr. Mark Leeds [50:07] When you’re working with the Muslim women, And I would imagine, you know, when people dealing with addiction coming off of like a drug and or something like that there’s actual physical trauma, like in the brain, the brain needs to heal. And people are suffering, you know, and, you know, maybe say that you’re sitting in a room talking to some people and, you know, one person might look at you and say, like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. And the other person saying, I really can’t even pay attention to you because I’m really suffering. You know, my I’m having headaches and dizziness. And, you know, I feel like the room is spinning around me. I mean, so I mean,

Harry Derbitsky [50:44] It’s all the time. Yeah. And, you know, it doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t bother me. I don’t listen to them.

Dr. Mark Leeds [50:50] Yeah. I mean, if you go to like a meeting, you know, they’ll say like one day at a time. It’s like, oh, great. One day at a time. And maybe in reality, the scary thing is it might be like five years at a time. You might need like five years for everything to heal and feel mostly normal again.

Harry Derbitsky [51:05] That’s their spiritual journey we don’t know when and how they drop but I do know when someone is rattled or stuff see everybody comes to me bummed out yeah 100 why would they come to me if they weren’t bummed out you know why would they you know so they contact me they’ve read my book or they’ve listened to a podcast or a webinar and they say gee this guy has something I wouldn’t I have right now a client, a psychiatrist. It’s ironical, Jay. I’ve never taken a psychology course. And the psychiatrist has taken a lot of psychology. Right. And he’s coming to me, again, paying me a ridiculous amount of money. And he’s growing. You know when you’re stuck in time mark you’re stuck and you may change your physiology which of course is a lot better than having pain and suffering but it doesn’t mean you’re growing in a spiritual way or in a human way it means that you’ve handled you’ve handled that which has been controlling you that alone of course means their life has changed but they still want to be happy and content you know it’s like this woman who was in a recovery program that I was in said I don’t want to get rid of being an alcoholic I want to be happy when I get rid of being an alcoholic. She got it. She got it. She was right. Everybody’s working at the problem. And please, Mark, don’t think I’m criticizing what you’re doing. I love the fact that you’re helping people with something that they can’t control. A drug through a drug type of thing. It’s beautiful. And it’s indigenous, to be honest. You’re just a healer. That’s what healers and doctors do but that person will not really fulfill themselves unless they tap into their unlimited potential they don’t want to just get rid of that problem they’re much more multifaceted than that they that’s what’s on their mind and has been grained and the world sees as results. Many people have incredible results and don’t, you know, they come back five years later and says it took me five years to really understand what you’re talking about, Harry. But during those five years, I was evolving and exploring all these sides of myself that I needed to know. And I have found out what you were saying is true for all human beings, not just me. Right a universal truth that’s jay why I said just put subjective stuff is not as big a deal as your as people are giving it right it universal truth a truth that applies to everybody and one of the truths is everybody thinks that’s a universal truth

Jay Yow [54:26] I’m just curious like you know you speak about like how a lot of people you know come to you want to be happy and want to be content has anyone that come to you that refuse to be happy they just want to get rid of their problem yeah I don’t know if you ever have those

Harry Derbitsky [54:42] I have people who hear nothing

Jay Yow [54:46] Yeah

Harry Derbitsky [54:47] I have people who I have a test I see when you get to be a seasoned veteran you get you get these subtle little things but one of the biggest tests is someone first they come all they want to talk about is their problem right that’s it okay so we go raise the level of consciousness I tell a lot of bad jokes in the moment

Jay Yow [55:12] Jokes are great so far I love loving it

Harry Derbitsky [55:15] Yeah yeah yeah so the bad joke lightens the mood so and that’s the first thing I did when I came into the addiction program with a heavy addiction. I came in and I yelled, lighten up! I can’t deal with all this heavy stuff. There’s no answers in it. It’s just this. And so they lighten up and we have a great feeling. And then the end of the session, they start talking about their problem again. They didn’t get it.

Jay Yow [55:49] So that’s your test.

Harry Derbitsky [55:54] That’s my test. If you keep talking about your problem, you’ve got nothing.

Jay Yow [55:57] I wonder if I can replicate that in my thought. If I call it in my thought, I’m like, make a bad joke. And if I make myself happy or laugh for however long, and then if I call myself to think about it, I don’t know if I can replicate it for my own purposes. I’m just curious.

Harry Derbitsky [56:17] You don’t need to replicate a bad a bad joke you just have to replicate that during the day you have good feelings and bad feelings right which ones do you like better

Jay Yow [56:31] It’s good feeling

Harry Derbitsky [56:33] Just pay attention to what creates good feelings for you right and that’s and keep away from the ones that create bad feelings yeah

Jay Yow [56:43] Right yeah that’s right I’m gonna start doing that more yeah

Harry Derbitsky [56:46] Yeah but you can’t do it mentally see that’s the joke

Jay Yow [56:50] Yeah

Harry Derbitsky [56:51] And let me answer the question of why they lose it this I’ve done a lot of indigenous work and I’m known as a man of the spirit in that world it’s unusual for a white guy to do it and I carry unusual medicines in that world sort of like what Mark has type of stuff, but not so physical. I deal more with the mental world. And so Mark would be a pipe carrier in the indigenous world, you know, and bring these medicines to people who have problems. He’s a specialist and I’m a specialist. I deal with passions and desires. Mark deals with more the physical reactions of addiction.

Dr. Mark Leeds [57:37] Actually, you know, since we last talked, I didn’t realize it’s been so long. It’s probably been a few years that I was doing a lot of medical and I still do medical treatment for specifically opioid addiction. And then we got more into alcohol addiction treatment, which is similar as medications to help people taper gradually off of alcohol. And but more recently in the last year or so, I’ve been working with people coming off of psychiatric medications, you know, things like Xanax, Ativan. Yeah, the opiates. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, not even the opiates, but just like these psych drugs that people thought were safe. You know, they’re not controlled drugs. They’re not drugs that people abuse. But like, for example, someone might be prescribed, you know, maybe someone in the family passes away and they’re grieving and they’re having a lot of anxiety and insomnia. And a doctor gives them a prescription for, say, Klonopin, you know, a tranquilizer to help them sleep. Or a benzo. That’s a benzo. Yeah, exactly. So then they take it for 20 years and then they realize after 20 years, they’re having all these strange adverse reactions and symptoms and they need to get off.

Harry Derbitsky [58:42] Not 20 years either, by the way, you know, that’s that’s

Dr. Mark Leeds [58:46] Maybe a lot sooner, maybe five, 10 years, two years or whatever. And then now when they come off of it, these people, they’re not really addicted and they don’t want to take more drugs. The last thing they want is to go to a doctor and be told maybe this drug will take care of your symptoms. They want to be done with drugs and so they have to go through that suffering without more medication to cover up the problem you know they really just basically need to heal and the healing is not an easy process and it can sometimes take a really long time I mean how do you work with someone like that who’s just really suffering with these symptoms and there’s nothing that can take it away easily there’s no pill that’s going to solve their problem in a day

Harry Derbitsky [59:24] Well we should do a show on that would be really cool definitely yeah that would be real I mean it that would be really for me too by the way see last time jay when I talked to mark which is years ago I learned about MAT or medically aided treatment that I didn’t know about so it’s always you know there’s in this big question there’s there’s always areas to explore all I can tell you is my ex my experience with a client she came to me she since she was she was in her 40s and she was on opiates and which I could and drugs since she was 13 and she was on this benzos that mark just described for three years and you’re supposed supposed to be on them for about three weeks maximum. And so she came to me, she heard me talk on a show, which is generally speaking where my clients come from, or my book. And she happened to live in my city, which is very unusual. I never have clients in my city, never, but she did. And so I said, let’s get together for coffee and so I spent two one and a half hour sessions with her talking about the spiritual reality of thought mark and she and she dropped them and I never talked to her about benzos I knew so much about benzos jay that I had to phone I have to contact a psychiatrist dr bill pettit who’s in the three principle and ask him what are they That’s how much I knew about it. But you don’t have to know about them. It’s better if you know about them, if you’re supposed to be treating it, I suppose. I mean, it’s good to know. I had no idea what the heck. Big names and all this stuff. Who can remember that stuff? And you’ve got to be a doctor, just a brain to remember the names. So I talked to her about the spiritual nature of thought, not the psychological nature. And she went into a feeling and she doctored herself and then she went two weeks later she went to the shrink the psychiatrist excuse me and she had an appointment and he says well how are you doing because anxiety that’s the big word out there jay right now oh anxiety big boogie man you know I think oh give me a break yeah you know but anyway that’s the world it’s a big deal anxiety, pain, you know, those types of things are really big out there right now. And don’t make me I’m not laughing in the sense that I pain is I don’t like pain and all that. But so she’s she goes to the psychiatrist and he says, Well, how are you doing? And she and this relates to the story what Mark’s talking about. She and she says, Well, I’m off him. He says, well that’s impossible nobody gets off these and so you have the psychological attraction to the addiction you have the psychological pointing by the doctor that this is what you need so again you’re believing believing that thought type of thing and then you have this feeling of relief from your anxiety which is thought related and then she tried to teach him what she had experienced I said don’t do that they won’t listen to that they won’t listen to that they won’t listen to truth they have a belief system that they have they are man’s level of consciousness is so low in this area they’re into behaviorism they’re into the effect and I’m into what caused before before what where did this where did it originate from do you want do you want to listen to a master or do you want to listen to a student who’s six generations past the master which one is more effective so force a monster yeah why

Jay Yow [1:04:00] Right

Harry Derbitsky [1:04:01] Because he’s speaking because he’s the originator of you so you want to go to the origin of what created the anxiety and it and so she dropped it now here’s the ironic thing mark just to support some of the problems you have so then I phone her up a month later and say well how are you doing she says well now that I’m talking to you Harry I’m feeling a lot better and I go oh shit she didn’t get it she sees it came from me and not herself and then she tells me when she came she was working as as a cook’s a waiter’s assistance in a little diner and got fired and now she’s working in the school system as a teacher’s aid and stuff and everybody’s telling her how calm she is and she says I can’t figure out why they’re telling me this I’m not a calm person you see she changed and she didn’t see it yeah wow that’s the way it is a lot of the time the indigenous would come to me and tell me the story of this bad spirit and I’d say no no no that’s you went inside and experienced the spiritual reality and they go oh it was a good thing and they changed their mind they just if you believe bullshit that you’re telling yourself misinformation if you’re giving yourself misinformation where is it coming from jay

Jay Yow [1:05:39] Where is it coming from, Mark? From your thought. That’s right. Go back to the thought. From the origin. Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:05:47] I mean, there’s also, people are surrounded by a lot of, you know, what everyone calls now gaslighting, you know, people around you, giving you, feeding you misinformation or making you feel bad about stuff. And, you know, like you said, the person goes to the doctor and the doctor says, you need more medication. Nobody ever gets off of this stuff. And then when a person is suffering, you know, they’re healing, they say, maybe the healing process might take weeks months or even years and they have their family around them saying why aren’t you better yet why aren’t you having more energy and getting up and running around and shopping and talking they’re

Harry Derbitsky [1:06:17] Also saying you’ve got to take your drugs yeah

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:06:20] Exactly yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:06:22] So you have to take your medication or else you’re you’re going and it’s just not the answer medicating the world is not the answer and the medication gets bigger and bigger and more and more powerful and as the world gets more out of control oh the stress level seems to go up I wonder why that’s happening why are people suffering from anxiety now why are they anxious economically the standard of living keeps going up and the level of anxiety goes up right economically this the standard goes up and the level of greed goes up

Jay Yow [1:07:07] Yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:07:08] People are out of balance jay

Jay Yow [1:07:12] I see that every day every day yeah

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:07:17] You know it reminds me of this comic that I saw this little one-frame comic that it’s a picture of this forest where all the trees have been cut down and so there’s all these tree stumps everywhere and it’s this little koala bear leaning over a tree stump and he looks completely depressed he’s probably crying and there’s two humans standing over this koala bear and they say he’s got mental illness yeah so

Jay Yow [1:07:41] That’s that’s great

Harry Derbitsky [1:07:42] And the trouble is it they can make it sound logical like it yeah it like like now this new trauma therapy stuff it’s just smoke moved around in a different direction it’s a touch deeper and everybody in the psychological community is excited about it’s bullshit

Jay Yow [1:08:05] Oh what is that

Harry Derbitsky [1:08:07] Well trauma creates addiction trauma creates mental illness what creates trauma jay thought there you go it’s all a thought you just jumped ahead of the whole psychological oh yeah

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:08:24] I’m smart now yeah you got you I was gonna say something else you’re like way out of me here

Harry Derbitsky [1:08:30] I’m sorry

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:08:31] That’s it

Harry Derbitsky [1:08:33] It’s good to have a virgin mind not being exposed to it you can see you don’t get caught up in the trappings the definitions the past teachings because I don’t know anything well guess what how I feel I have a group called the mental health transformation I have in this group I have created more miracles than any psychiatrist in the world no one will listen no one will listen nobody cares they like they want entertainment. I go up, we go on these podcasts, like look at the fruits. Listen to me. They don’t care. They’d see it as entertainment. You see this information. They did. I think what results? I thought you wanted results. No, they don’t want results.

Jay Yow [1:09:18] They want a good story. They want a good story. I think that’s, that’s it. They just want a good story. I’m just curious. This is totally out of scope. Totally not. Maybe not relevant. Sorry, mark I just have to ask harry have you thought about creating a comic strip on all those issues I feel like it will be great you know I like you like you have like this sense of humor I felt I can combine it with like a visual on you know like you know how like a lot of website they might have like a for you know comic strip or whatever that people can read it could help people and it’s easier to access and it’s easier to understand too I’m just curious if you ever thought about doing that

Harry Derbitsky [1:10:00] No because

Jay Yow [1:10:04] I’m definitely if you create it I would definitely read it because it’s so entertaining and it’s so educational too it’s not just

Harry Derbitsky [1:10:12] You see what is obvious in today’s world is there’s a there’s a lot of different ways to communicate yeah and you have hit on one of the best educational formats in the world is if it captures the person’s interest and it’s light they’re going to learn or absorb the message a lot easier than if it’s talking about the three principles and thought and you know that you know after a while people go oh yeah well I think I’ll go and play golf or yeah

Jay Yow [1:10:44] That’s essentially how I learned my science is back back then when I was really young my mom would always rent this like vhx which have we actually we had to ask with all the cartoon that you know the cartoons I’m sure you know you can find someone maybe mark and draw maybe mark is a good […] yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:11:06] I think we’re out of out of our skill realm the answer like it’s a it’s actually a brilliant idea and it would be but my message is it the I’m sharing like with this new project with you know 20 women training 20 women in this area and they’ll take it out maybe we’ll use comics to attract you muslim comics to attract you know people but that stuff has to like I like the idea but that it’s not in my realm of where I want to do now and the other thing to answer your question one question you asked is I’m very selective like I have lots of opportunity right but I’m actually cutting the summer down where I’m just keying in on that project and working with this psychiatrist and pretty much like having a summer of tennis and swimming and yeah that’s because I understand I’ve seen people get old by being burnt out and I’m 75 and I’m still playing a high level of tennis and stuff wow yeah yeah so with young people and stuff like that so I don’t want to lose that and I know in one snap it’s gone right like one knee one heart one and so you start to you start to guide your life that you’ll be here for a little while and within that you can only you start to be selective in what you’re going to do it’s a great idea but thank you maybe when I was 30 years old I would have jumped into it and five years developing that idea right right now five years would make me 80.

Jay Yow [1:13:13] I mean I have to say you didn’t you didn’t look a day older than 61. Like when you when you keep saying that you’re 75 I’m like that’s not how my grandpa looked when he was 75. You know that’s how

Harry Derbitsky [1:13:23] And that’s the reality and let me tell you that you do read you do uncover more youth yeah I had I had a very powerful experience mark that you know I had a fairly serious case of cancer and oh no it’s great I loved it and yeah and then people say how can you have loved it but and what happened was see any story that has a happy ending is a good story. Mark knows that. He knows that no matter what people have gone through, if they find that happiness gene or that good feeling, or they just feel that it’s a good story. These people actually have a lot to share with the world about suffering, but from a happy perspective. And they’re living a happier life. So that’s a good story, even though they were addicted. And so I had cancer and it, and I could, I did have a shift and the shift was, gee, I’m every day I’m getting up. This, my unconscious mind was creeping in. You’re sick, you’re sick, you’re sick. And I wasn’t seeing it because I was have, you know, I have a positive attitude to life, but it was creeping in there. And all of a sudden I had a heavy feeling and I took my bike and rode down to the ocean. I live very close to the ocean. And I look out into the water and I go, I can’t do this. I can’t be heavy. I might die in six months, but I can’t do heavy. If I’m going to live only six more months, I want to be happy for those six months. I don’t want to be thinking about my disease for six months and I just have a lousy six month and so in that moment I changed my mind inside out not outside in jay inside out I changed my mind and in that moment I got happy and then I had the most productive fantastic and the treatment worked but here’s here’s the joke mark this is for you so now it’s a year later and I’m in mexico holidaying because you know with covid and stuff everything got kind of closed in and I needed a break for my good fun I’m having and so I’m in mexico and I no tourists I hate tourists so only mexican and worse yet are canadian drinkers which are 99 of them and so there’s a little there’s a beautiful body of the ocean where only mexicans go and it’s calm and I go I’m swimming in it and I have I buy a boogie board this is for you mark I’m telling you this story because I didn’t know this and I’m on the boogie board the first day and three four minutes I’m pooped out I’m pooped out you know kicking with the board the third day I’m in the water and I’m in there for a half an hour and I’m without realizing that I was in the water for half an hour and I’m feeling full of energy at that moment youth came back into me and after that the amount of energy physical energy I’ve had it took a year mark for the cancer or the addiction to clear out of the body and I didn’t know that I never thought I could reclaim youth see my body was severely injured with the cancer it was more you couldn’t see it the cancer was gone but the body had had all of and all of a sudden I had all this energy and I came back and I’m playing tennis well my tennis is way up what’s the problem with being old you have to move yeah and if you don’t move the stroke is quite a bit handicapped yes and the momentum and the motion in the youth versus an old fart is one stiff is a board and the other one is and it always a you know and you know and the young person is just

Jay Yow [1:18:03] Oh man I already started doing that noise already every time I gotta get out of the chair

Harry Derbitsky [1:18:10] Oh no yeah gotta get up more I need to get up more yeah so we that was a surprise to me mark that recovery like the recovery was going on for a whole year I wasn’t aware of that’s what’s happening to you’re helping people and the big benefit will be after a year

Jay Yow [1:18:34] Yeah yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:18:35] Because they’re now not releasing all that negative thought energy and they’re releasing that positive more better attitude energy and it creates through the brain a biochemical result that takes a little while to seep through and I mean if you’ve been addicted for 20 years you can rest assured that the body is messed up

Jay Yow [1:19:02] Right yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:19:03] You see the indigenous people who have dropped drinking a lot of them have but when they hit 50 55 their body is just toast

Jay Yow [1:19:12] Right yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:19:13] Because they’ve been I mean they lived on the street they were they ate crap and they and they were drunk all the time and then and then they dropped it they so they have the greatest addiction of alcohol and also the greatest recovery rate what of course they have spirituality too you know yeah right you know not just white man spirituality real

Jay Yow [1:19:40] What’s the white man spiritual

Harry Derbitsky [1:19:43] That’s religion oh difference between spirituality and religion religion is something you need that helps you to support you when you can’t think for yourself right

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:19:57] Yeah it’s like maybe too much structure and the spirituality is gone like like we had talked about before like a alcoholics anonymous started as a spiritual organization and then over the years that you know they have their what do they call it the traditions and the rules and structure yeah yeah steps and then then over time eventually you get to the point where people start fighting over you’re not doing the traditions right you’re not doing the steps right you’re not following the rules and gets into all this administrative fighting back and forth and suddenly you realize the spirituality just doesn’t seem to be either the same and you know then when you talk about the three principles it just you know it’s kind of like I don’t know if you’d say it’s like formless and it just kind of fits in with wherever a person’s at and I mean just the idea of telling a person who just came off of an addiction you know maybe there’s nothing wrong with you maybe you’re just finding where you are you know and I mean it’s just incredible I mean that’s such a spiritual connection beyond telling someone you gotta work the steps you gotta follow the rules here you know work the steps or die I mean that’s not like a nice thing to hear when you know you’re hoping that to make a connection and you know find you know just you know so it’s a whole different thing

Harry Derbitsky [1:21:10] And what if you’re a creative person like you are jay and you don’t like following steps

Jay Yow [1:21:17] I really don’t like following steps yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:21:19] So what are you going to do when you’re exposed to a system that says you have to do the steps

Jay Yow [1:21:28] I usually bend them you want them yeah well you I didn’t break them I bend them

Harry Derbitsky [1:21:30] However well you know they would say that you’re not following the steps but the answer is when you’re creative you fall through the cracks jay

Jay Yow [1:21:41] Yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:21:43] That’s just the way it is and when you’re so creative intuitive matt you know all these types of feelings are suppressed by society so all the why the most creative people you know are there and all my message is you know van gogh in my mind was the greatest painter ever in the world to me he’s the greatest painter ever yet he pulled off his ear in frustration all I’m teaching you is you can be van gogh the genius without pulling off your ear right yeah that’s all that’s all why are you pulling off your hair when you don’t

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:22:26] Yeah jay the jay it seems like the projects that you were you and james are involved in are things of all about creative creativity it seems like that’s like your main audience I feel like you guys are speaking to the creative people of the world you know the like you said the people that fall through the cracks you know the people that you know like how can a creative person find success in the world and navigate the world and you know your your website that note pd where you can list ideas every day brainstorming that’s like a great practice and you know I mean that’s a way to feel good about yourself you know you just created something that didn’t exist and now you have you’re like look I just made this list of ideas and tomorrow I’m going to do another one and it’s just you feel good about it that you made something in the world that just was never there before

Jay Yow [1:23:08] Yeah I mean like I didn’t create it james and paulo created it I’m just mainly there to spread the word but yeah I have seen people on the website just create lists every day and then, and then that seems happy. And, we also have a community that actually like responded to the, to the list, notepd.com. And I have people reach out to me, they’re like, this actually changed the way I work now, like, you know, because they keep exercising the creativity muscle. And then once they finish the list, they feel good about themselves. I think that’s where, you know, the, you know, Harry’s talks about like, just the feeling positivity and they’re feeling good.

Harry Derbitsky [1:23:46] Once you release creativity, you’re going to have a positive feeling. Creativity is a positive feeling.

Jay Yow [1:23:52] Yeah. I mean, I experienced myself too. Like every time I finished writing this, a list, I’m like, this is great. This is probably the best, you know, best time of my life, you know, at that moment, you know, it will pass. And then, you know, the other, the next day come, come around, I write the list again. And then I’m like this is the best thing that ever happened to me in my life.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:24:14] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I imagine like with your gaming, like, you know, that’s something you could turn into a whole nother thing of, you know, maybe talk about life lessons, you know, what are you learning from the game you’re playing and almost become like a game philosopher of, you know, and then that when you do that, you know, that could turn into a YouTube to an audio to a podcast of you just playing the game and talking about the game and what getting out of the game and thinking about right

Jay Yow [1:24:41] I think I mean you’re right I think when I first started that the channel that’s actually my main things like I want to teach people how to like learn you know people learn from books people learn from you know tv show whatever but people can learn from games as well

Harry Derbitsky [1:24:56] They do they obviously do but they’re not but generally speaking when you tie in the philosophy with it, that’s the deeper thinking about it. What creates a good feeling in gaming? And when do I play the game better than when I don’t play it so well? And there’s a state of mind. And we mentioned when there’s a state of mind, of being in the now or contentment in that moment where you are actually not thinking you’re just performing in the moment that’s why people like games it takes them out of their head that’s the psychological part but there’s a creative part as well it takes see everyone talks about I got out of my head that’s not it took me into this space that’s what it’s about that’s what you want to talk about it took me into this space and when I’m in that space if I am out not only out of my head I am surfing on the highest wave of life

Jay Yow [1:26:25] Right

Harry Derbitsky [1:26:27] I am surfing my son is a surfer he loves it he’s 30 almost 35 years old and he and he’s loves surfing and he knows he’s ending getting closer to the end of his career in it because it’s a it’s a young man’s sport right and he can it only but he just loves it but why does he love it why does he love the surfing and it’s getting on this way and it takes him into this space why do people go up to whistler which is where I live and they go up once from and they snowboard and they’re up there for a year working in as in the restaurants and stuff just so they can have that feeling right you carry that feeling inside yourself jay it’s because you know it’s real you can access that feeling not only in games that was what saturday night fever was about john travolta had this amazing feeling on the dance floor the best feeling in the world and he met this girl and he said to her, I want to be with you. She says, you’re just a shithole, just dances. I want a man who can do something for me. And he says, no, I want that feeling on the dance floor all the time. That’s what I want. That’s why I’m asking to be with you. That’s that’s what it’s about the gaming is an example of what you takes people out of their head right into the spiritual reality of being one with god

Jay Yow [1:28:14] Right

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:28:15] That’s what happens

Harry Derbitsky [1:28:17] You’re just one with god and you can’t describe it to anyone

Jay Yow [1:28:20] No it’s like a it’s like a it’s like a weird feeling that it’s like it’s so satisfying too like every time I play the game it’s a satisfying feeling I’m like even though I’m losing but I’m like this is great

Harry Derbitsky [1:28:33] In fact here’s the joke that mankind is really messed up it’s great that you’re losing because it challenges your mind and your mind ha that’s why gaming is so popular the life is it’s not very challenging no it’s very routine

Jay Yow [1:28:51] And it’s a little bit more brutal life is a bit more brutal too

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:28:57] Well yeah you don’t You don’t walk around everyday life saying I’m losing and this is great. Yeah, no.

Harry Derbitsky [1:29:02] Yeah, that’s right. But it is a contact sport. So that’s part of the game. Right. And on a psychological level, it looks like a problem. On a spiritual level, it’s perfectly designed to bring your attention that you’re walking away from God. That’s what suffering is. I’m walking away. Life is simple. You’re walking away from God or towards God. Right. You’re not stationary you’re either one or the other and as you walk away from god guess what you must do god says okay you want a gps system an alarm system that is perfectly designed to let you know that you are effing it up and I’m going to give it to you it’s designed perfectly suffer baby suffer and you go I don’t like this I better go to a shrink and it says well let’s examine the suffering a little bit more and poke our holes in it oh and I’m gonna this will be 20 years by the way and at and will you be healed by that oh no we don’t heal we cope and see these people have good intentions they’re nice people innocently misguiding people innocently they’re not doing it on purpose they really this is what they learned at school I have a my psychiatrist friend he said I went to university and school for 25 years he’s a doctor of several he says not one class on mental health

Jay Yow [1:30:40] Why oh

Harry Derbitsky [1:30:42] Because they don’t know what it is all the classes were on mental illness

Jay Yow [1:30:48] Right

Harry Derbitsky [1:30:50] Figure it out what are they experts in

Jay Yow [1:30:52] Mental illness

Harry Derbitsky [1:30:55] But you’re not interested in mental illness you’re interested in feeling good

Jay Yow [1:30:59] Yeah feeling good

Harry Derbitsky [1:31:01] I if you’re feeling bummed out do you want to actually exam you’ve already looked at it for how old you are continually why you’re bummed out you’re an expert in it right

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:31:15] You know it’s interesting I’ve had on my podcast the expert in being bummed out yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:31:22] But absolute fool to feeling to being totally inspired and turned on.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:31:31] Yeah, right. So when you talk about therapy, you know, the psychiatrists and whether they know what they’re doing or not, I’ve had several psychiatrists on the podcast and psychologists and therapists. And that’s kind of my, the question I always ask. I’ve been exploring that for a while of like, what is therapy? What happens in therapy? What do you do for people when you’re doing therapy? I’ve never been able to get a straight answer. If you listen back to the podcast, I asked a question and they kind of go off in another direction. One guy was very honest about it. He said, we just don’t have time for that. I mean, psychiatrists can’t sit with a patient for an hour and talk to them. We need, you know, they, and this guy was not a regular psychiatrist. He dealt with public health, but yeah. And then I talked to a psychiatrist recently that she has the time, you know, she makes the time to talk to patients. I said, so what, so you finally, I got one. I pinned one down, you know, what exactly do you do? You talk to people for an hour. You’re a psychiatrist. What is the therapy? And she said, it doesn’t matter. The talking is the more important part. There’s no magical technique or therapeutic technique. It’s us making connection and talking. And that’s where the healing happens. And, you know, you don’t necessarily have to be trained in anything. Although, of course, it helps, you know, it helps to understand, this is what you’re dealing with. But yeah, it was interesting to finally hear that. It’s not cognitive behavioral. It’s not CBT or all these other three-letter therapies or even psychoanalysis like Freudian therapy, but it’s just two people talking.

Harry Derbitsky [1:33:07] And that’s what we’re doing. The only difference is I wouldn’t totally agree with this woman, but I would agree that she’s 100% correct in the process that talking to people honestly and genuinely is going to produce a positive result absolutely she’s absolutely correct that’s the god energy jay when people connect with you on your show or people connect with mark and what he’s doing that’s that’s the god energy the us mind type of thing and it’s formless and so to support what you’re saying mark aa is hopeless they have a whole five percent success rate but fellowship they just talk is marvelous yeah don’t have a lot of wisdom but they but the fact that they just do what that woman who has a higher level of consciousness and who has a deeper understanding when they do that and people say well I feel bummed out I go to the fellowship and I feel good yeah what do I do I’m not I can give people information about the three principles it’s not going to help them they have to catch a good feeling and where the good feeling comes from and it comes from within you right that’s the but the good feeling is the is the teaching it is that it’s always the feeling always the feeling and if it feels good and it’s not hurting anyone keep doing it yeah how simple do you need it to be it feels good and keep doing it but they say I don’t think so bingo back in another path she’s right mark she’s a hundred percent right 100 I take it back she’s a hundred percent

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:35:23] That’s one one of the good things from 12-step recovery the therapeutic value of one person helping another is without parallel without parallel to

Harry Derbitsky [1:35:34] Have somebody there here’s one of the greatest healings I’ve ever done jay and mark this woman is in a in an old folks home and she is on the edge of die and she’s just hopeless I didn’t know what to say I put my hand on her shoulder for half an hour. I didn’t say a word. After half an hour, she regained her equilibrium. I took my hand off her shoulder and we smiled. We were friends for life.

Jay Yow [1:36:09] Just one simple thing.

Harry Derbitsky [1:36:10] That’s the best healing I’ve ever done. Wow I didn’t say a word just put my hand she needed support and I felt it and I also felt something else I couldn’t come up with a word to talk about and I love that if I would shut up more maybe I’d be better at what I’m doing I love your bad jokes though yeah yeah yeah jokes are always Yeah, humor is always good. Yeah, so we come to really the essence of what everybody is looking for. Why people are addicted is they have a bad feeling and they want a good feeling. Why people are mentally sick is that they got despondent and caught up in their thinking too much and that created bad feelings in them and they got misguided. They misguided themselves and then they went to other people that misguided them as well and they get caught up in the system everybody knows if you’re totally wonky gone insane in that moment that having a drug will calm you down it’s not a lifelong affliction you know it’s just a temporary where he slipped, where you got confused, dismantled, you become vulnerable. But that’s a very beautiful state to see. Mark is very vulnerable. Jay is very vulnerable. You’ve got to be honest about that. Harry is very vulnerable. Harry is no different than Jay and Mark. And when I’m vulnerable, that’s generally speaking, when I’m hearing something for the first time, because I’m open to the fact that I don’t know. Why are we pretending? I know. Inside out realities. I know. Well, I don’t know. I know it’s true, but I don’t know everything about inside out realities. Thought expert on thought compared to the world I don’t know anything about thought it’s the original nature of who we are oh it’s the creative force that creates everything in our universe oh you know I don’t know anything about that I just know it’s there right It works a certain way. You put in shit, you get shit.

Jay Yow [1:38:56] Good thought. Good thought. No bullshit thought. No bear shit thought. Like bullshit doesn’t work in a bear shit.

Harry Derbitsky [1:39:03] And you get a good feeling and you share the good feeling. That’s what you get.

Jay Yow [1:39:08] Sharing the good feeling is definitely the best thing ever.

Harry Derbitsky [1:39:14] And isn’t that, Jay, what you’re doing on your show?

Jay Yow [1:39:16] Yes. I’m trying to. I’m trying to do better. Brian, don’t bullshit yourself. I’m doing it on my show. Yeah, because I’m trying to be humble, you know. Yeah,

Harry Derbitsky [1:39:28] Well, just stop trying to be humble and be honest. Yeah, yeah. Everybody says, I’m happy, but. I go, can you erase the but? How do you poop? How do you poop? You poop. What’s the sound of one hand clapping? The sound of one hand clapping, you know. Yeah you know how do you poop

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:39:52] You know we poop well when you see poop going by you don’t don’t grab it

Jay Yow [1:39:56] Yeah yeah then analyze it

Harry Derbitsky [1:39:59] You know just just let it go just let it go and let it be so what happens when you get a good feeling what do you do nothing I

Jay Yow [1:40:10] I usually tend to share it I’ve out

Harry Derbitsky [1:40:13] That’s like that’s that’s a goal that’s a gold mine that if you are a natural sharer of good feelings, you will grow unlimitedly in your life. You’ll always have a spark of happiness. You’ll always have a positive attitude. You’ll always see yourself connected to other people. You’ll have compassion. America has lost its compassion. It’s lost. And it’s losing its power so quickly in the world it’s incredible and they and what’s surprising is they want to lose their power I guess they’re tired of being on top you know because they’re really working hard to give it all away yeah and with compassion you care it’s important that you know other people are suffering but what’s more important is the people around you are suffering and if you can help those people bit by bit with digital of course Jay and I have one common thing our life would be quite a bit more boring and singular without the digital format that the world is in it’s amazing that a local yokel like jay from malaysia and a dumbass old fart like harry can have such an impact and I’m not doing it jay these people coming I you know I get a phone call this doctor from new jersey who has a 66 bed emergency ward for addiction and read both my books and he phones me up and I go and we develop a relationship right that’s it making sense we’ve never met I did this program that I addiction alcoholism and three principles that is so successful and we ran for three and a half years I never met the guy physically wow never visit I’ve never met mark I’ve never met you

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:42:27] Right oh yeah yeah I came close once I was on a cruise in your area like but they because of the schedule they had us on there’s no time to get away right we went to the Butchart Gardens yeah yeah was it beautiful was it oh oh it was incredible yeah it was unbelievably beautiful yeah yeah

Harry Derbitsky [1:42:45] We should do a show on your where you’re going now with this alcohol and stuff, that would be really cool.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:42:52] Yeah, and the benzo tapering and withdraw and the protracted withdrawal, definitely some specifics I wanted to, maybe definitely we should do another talk about that.

Harry Derbitsky [1:43:02] Yeah, yeah, because we’ll learn from each other type of, you see, Mark, I have a problem. I know a lot more than most people. I don’t know anything. It’s a it’s a it’s a conundrum I know who I am mark and jay I know who I am you know I can pretend you know people can but I don’t it’s this thing we’re talking we’re talking about life here that’s a big you know it’s a contact sport but it’s a sport of mystery and magic and

Jay Yow [1:43:36] There’s no manual come with it

Harry Derbitsky [1:43:38] Yeah no manual and yet there is a manual the manual is the three principles that you have to discover. You uncover it. It just flows through you. Just think of it this way. You know everything you need to know about thought because you understand about creativity. You’ve been studying with your gentleman about creativity for years now. That’s your journey. You are an expert in creativity. Thank you. To the level of what the world understands you’re in the same boat as I am I know more about creativity than most people and yet I don’t know anything about it you know you’re in the same boat so that’s thought the creative element the spiritual nature of thought is the creative element that created the earth now get this jay there’s only one thought always only it started with a thought and it’s just the continuation of that same thought everything that you’re doing from the beginning you were born is just one thought you had a thought and then you it kept expanding it’s still the same thought it’s all original thought creativity it’s all creativity the world was created jay was created just one thought one thought and when jay was created the world cried and said we’ll never be the same again and that’s thank you and that’s the truth you have changed the world the whole world is affected and how do we change the world every time jay and mark share a beautiful feeling which is why they’re doing their shows by the way they have changed the world they have that’s quantum physics

Jay Yow [1:45:38] Right

Harry Derbitsky [1:45:39] Quantum physics is there’s some there’s one element and another element a million miles away when that element changes this element changes that’s quantum physics right every time you share a positive feeling you’re you’re raising the vibration of the world every time you share a negative feeling well

Jay Yow [1:46:02] That happens too that’s like there’s a strength really

Harry Derbitsky [1:46:07] You’ve got a responsibility jay yes

Jay Yow [1:46:09] I’m trying to I’m I will do I’m doing it I’m changing my thought right now on the spot. I’m doing it.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:46:16] Anyway, guys, so I actually have to wrap it up now. I take so, eh? Thank you.

Jay Yow [1:46:22] I mean, this is great conversations. I mean, I came on without knowing anything. Mark, it’s kind enough to have me on because I don’t know anything. But I have learned a lot in this conversation. Thank you, Harry.

Harry Derbitsky [1:46:37] Well, you know, all of us know. Here’s the final thought. I did a lot of the talking, but they were listening. It was all coming from us. Right. Without a listener, like if you have a listener who interrupts everything and does this and doesn’t want to soar, you don’t soar. You can’t soar. But just be aware. It’s not the person that’s talking. It’s the space that’s created. And when that space is there are solutions to every problem, because you’re going inside to the truth that Mark’s wisdom and Jay’s wisdom is inspiring Harry’s wisdom. Harry needs Jay, Harry needs Mark. And yet, if he doesn’t know where happiness, his happiness comes from, he’ll worship Jay and Mark, or worship that feeling, when that feeling comes from inside out, from inside myself. And when you are wiser, you start to guide other people towards that. And the reason you do it is because you start to learn more about love. Love is the answer. It’s always been the answer. And it always will be the answer. Another word for love is God. That’s all. Thank you.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:48:01] Thank you guys for joining me.

Jay Yow [1:48:04] Thank you, Mark. Thank you for.

Dr. Mark Leeds [1:48:06] Thank you, Jay. Thank you.

Harry Derbitsky [1:48:10] Mark, it’s good to reconnect. Thank you. It’s good to reconnect, Mark. You know.